France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall • Hacker News Board

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#81

Post by inflatableDodo » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #49

inflatableDodo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What do they expect them to do? Use trains.

Except that trains don't have the same possible destinations, you can't (easily) take a train to a destination outside EU. I think the gov went in the wrong direction here, the tax for flights within France should have been the highest, to give more incentives for using the train

>Except that trains don't have the same possible destinations

I do not know of a commercial airport without a train station. There do however appear to be plenty of rail stations that do not have airports.

>you can't (easily) take a train to a destination outside EU.

Britain is about to test this theory. But also, that is nonsense. Passenger trains leave and enter the EU all the time.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#82

Post by Scoundreller » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #10

I don't really understand what the purpose of this tax is. There's no alternative to burning fuel by energy density on an airline, so why go after flights? What do they expect them to do? If you're taxing petrol cars you'd expect electric cars to become more economically viable. Either way I disagree with carbon taxes. They're regressive, and ignore the fact that regular people are being badly hurt by them whereas th…

> they’re regressive

Nothing a cheque can’t solve.

And by taxing carbon, you get the added benefit of reducing some other tax, like the regressive nature of income taxes (ie: taxing people that have to work because they didn’t inherit/afford capital assets)

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#83

Post by simias » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #10

I don't really understand what the purpose of this tax is. There's no alternative to burning fuel by energy density on an airline, so why go after flights? What do they expect them to do? If you're taxing petrol cars you'd expect electric cars to become more economically viable. Either way I disagree with carbon taxes. They're regressive, and ignore the fact that regular people are being badly hurt by them whereas th…

I took a plane from Lisbon to Paris for 35 euros last week. That feels incredibly cheap to me, especially compared to high-speed train. I routinely pay twice as much to get not even half as far by TGV. Making train more competitive by taxing planes more might not be a terrible idea. I say might because I can't pretend to even begin to understand all the implications of this tax but hopefully whoever came up with it did...

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#84

Post by buboard » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

inflatableDodo wrote: post #66

buboard wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants cant train to algeria

Given that you can get from France to Algeria by land and there are extensive rail networks across all the connecting regions, including extensive rail networks in Algeria itself, built originally by the French, I would be amused to know how you came up with this conclusion.

Last i checked the mediterranean was still there.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#85

Post by benj111 » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

theDevill wrote: post #56

Why are Americans so obsessed with religion, devil and sins?! Taxes exist to capture money and finance the externalities that are ignored by corporations. If corporations were more responsible countries would not have to tax these issues. In this case France is using the money to improve an already pretty good rail system. Compare this to the US and the California train line?

Its not a religious thing just a turn of phrase, Sin taxes are typically high taxes on unhealthy things to discourage their use. I don't know its origin but its common in the UK.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#86

Post by artificial » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

theDevill wrote: post #56

Why are Americans so obsessed with religion, devil and sins?! Taxes exist to capture money and finance the externalities that are ignored by corporations. If corporations were more responsible countries would not have to tax these issues. In this case France is using the money to improve an already pretty good rail system. Compare this to the US and the California train line?

Your name makes this incredibly amusing. Thankfully the US is more than just California and rail is functioning on the opposite side of the country. It's a shame that things can't be done but this is the system "working".

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#87

Post by robjan » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

theDevill wrote: post #56

Why are Americans so obsessed with religion, devil and sins?! Taxes exist to capture money and finance the externalities that are ignored by corporations. If corporations were more responsible countries would not have to tax these issues. In this case France is using the money to improve an already pretty good rail system. Compare this to the US and the California train line?

It's quite an established term and not just used by Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_tax

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#88

Post by rjsw » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

inflatableDodo wrote: post #66

buboard wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants cant train to algeria

Given that you can get from France to Algeria by land and there are extensive rail networks across all the connecting regions, including extensive rail networks in Algeria itself, built originally by the French, I would be amused to know how you came up with this conclusion.

France and Algeria are not connected by land.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#89

Post by reroute1 » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

s_kilk wrote: post #14

cptaj wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that sucks. More freedom is good. More taxing won't help more people travel. That is, of course, the intention here. But that's not a solution, its pretty regressive.

We may be at the point where we have to choose between the freedom to fly and the freedom to live on an inhabitable planet. Generations from now, people will, if there are any left, look back on these bourgeois luxuries as a kind of grotesque oppulance, utterly out of whack with ecological reality.

That's something you just can't predict. No one knows what people will be thinking "generations from now". You seem to be projecting strongly.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#90

Post by LargeWu » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #49

inflatableDodo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What do they expect them to do? Use trains.

Except that trains don't have the same possible destinations, you can't (easily) take a train to a destination outside EU. I think the gov went in the wrong direction here, the tax for flights within France should have been the highest, to give more incentives for using the train

That's OK. Nobody is forcing you to take the train, you're just being expected to pay for the environmental costs of your decision to fly, should you choose to do so.