The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#171

Post by rickyc091 » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

thiht wrote: post #156

pbreit wrote: post #9

I just switched from Mac to Windows and had to move back. I cannot believe how miserable the Windows experience is. I mistakenly thought that since so much is browser-based, it's not a big deal. But literally every single little thing is slightly-to-much worse on Windows. Even stupid things like changing scroll direction, saving the 5 second preference for notifications to disappear, finding a wifi password, arrangin…

Keep in mind you might be heavily biased because you're used to macOS. When I had to switch from Windows 10 to macOS last year for work, I was flabbergasted at how the general UX sucked compared to what I expected: - it's not possible to switch between multiple windows of the same application with Cmd+Tab - it's not possible to display two windows side by side without switching to fullscreen mode - it's hard to make…

If you save a wifi password, you can retrieve it in the Mac Keychain. If you've logged into the WiFi network on another iOS device, you can automatically share the password to your other devices.

I'm sure you can retrieve the wifi password on Windows, but there's probably a learning curve for someone unfamiliar with the ecosystem.

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#172

Post by wtallis » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

thiht wrote: post #156

pbreit wrote: post #9

I just switched from Mac to Windows and had to move back. I cannot believe how miserable the Windows experience is. I mistakenly thought that since so much is browser-based, it's not a big deal. But literally every single little thing is slightly-to-much worse on Windows. Even stupid things like changing scroll direction, saving the 5 second preference for notifications to disappear, finding a wifi password, arrangin…

Keep in mind you might be heavily biased because you're used to macOS. When I had to switch from Windows 10 to macOS last year for work, I was flabbergasted at how the general UX sucked compared to what I expected: - it's not possible to switch between multiple windows of the same application with Cmd+Tab - it's not possible to display two windows side by side without switching to fullscreen mode - it's hard to make…

> the apps don't close when you click the close button. I get that there used to be a reason for this, nowadays it's just bad design

Are there any apps in particular for which you feel that this behavior is worse? It's supposed to be for document-centric applications or those that do something useful in the background (eg. iTunes). On Windows, the latter category tends to clutter up the system tray, while the former category just forces the user to wait for the whole application to re-launch if the last document was closed. Splash screens are mostly a thing of the past, but app launch times are still noticeable, and re-activating an application that was merely swapped out by the OS is faster than a cold start of the app.

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#173

Post by wtallis » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #83

NeoBasilisk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was scared to ask what this was even referring to

Apple calls this setting "Scroll direction: Natural" and describes it as "Content tracks finger movement." That's been their default since back in 2011, and although a lot of people disabled it at the time I definitely prefer this mode of scroll interaction. It's more direct and is consistent across all the gadgets I use. It acts like you're grabbing the content and moving it around, rather than grabbing a scroll ind…

> It's more direct and is consistent across all the gadgets I use.

The problem is that a touchpad is still fundamentally an indirect pointing device, rather than a direct pointing device like a touchscreen. The "consistency" argument relies on the same flawed reasoning that led Microsoft so astray with their Windows 8/Metro UI efforts to unify touchscreen and desktop interfaces.

And ergonomically, it's easier to perform a down scroll on a touchpad with the non-"natural" scroll direction, because your fingers have more room to curl further than to straighten out when they're resting normally on the trackpad.

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#174

Post by ymolodtsov » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

spiffytech wrote: post #170

knubie wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not possible to switch between multiple windows of the same application with Cmd+Tab I think Cmd + backtick will do what you want.

Cmd-backtick technically works, but is its own mess. It doesn't have a preview mechanism like Cmd-tab/Alt-tab, so you bring a bunch of windows forward that _stay_ forward while you look for the one you want. Then you have to go back and bring forward the windows you just covered up so you can see what you wanted. I wind up installing Contexts on my Macs, which changes Cmd-tab to behave just like Windows' Alt-tab.

It's also still impossible to switch between the windows of the same app located at different spaces.

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#175

Post by ymolodtsov » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

dasKrokodil wrote: post #158

thiht wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind you might be heavily biased because you're used to macOS. When I had to switch from Windows 10 to macOS last year for work, I was flabbergasted at how the general UX sucked compared to what I expected: - it's not possible to switch between multiple windows of the same application with Cmd+Tab - it's not possible to display two windows side by side without switching to fullscreen mode - it's hard to make…

I agree with all of this and would like to add that Windows is much better than OS X if you have a keyboard-centric workflow. For example, if you want to navigate dialog windows with the keyboard, you can just press Alt + one of the underscored letters to directly press a button in Windows. In OS X, you have to press tab a million times until you have reached your desired button and then press space... The window man…

>> In OS X, you have to press tab a million times until you have reached your desired button and then press space...

What do you mean? If you have a dialog button you just need to click Cmd-"First letter of the command that you need". The system never teaches you, true, but it's there.

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#176

Post by ymolodtsov » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #173

wlesieutre wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple calls this setting "Scroll direction: Natural" and describes it as "Content tracks finger movement." That's been their default since back in 2011, and although a lot of people disabled it at the time I definitely prefer this mode of scroll interaction. It's more direct and is consistent across all the gadgets I use. It acts like you're grabbing the content and moving it around, rather than grabbing a scroll ind…

> It's more direct and is consistent across all the gadgets I use. The problem is that a touchpad is still fundamentally an indirect pointing device, rather than a direct pointing device like a touchscreen. The "consistency" argument relies on the same flawed reasoning that led Microsoft so astray with their Windows 8/Metro UI efforts to unify touchscreen and desktop interfaces. And ergonomically, it's easier to perf…

> The problem is that a touchpad is still fundamentally an indirect pointing device, rather than a direct pointing device like a touchscreen.

Based on what? I don't think there's any logical advantage to each of these options although I prefer the Mac-way now. You just get used to it.

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#177

Post by dasKrokodil » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

ymolodtsov wrote: post #175

dasKrokodil wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all of this and would like to add that Windows is much better than OS X if you have a keyboard-centric workflow. For example, if you want to navigate dialog windows with the keyboard, you can just press Alt + one of the underscored letters to directly press a button in Windows. In OS X, you have to press tab a million times until you have reached your desired button and then press space... The window man…

>> In OS X, you have to press tab a million times until you have reached your desired button and then press space... What do you mean? If you have a dialog button you just need to click Cmd-"First letter of the command that you need". The system never teaches you, true, but it's there.

I just tried this in TextEdit by writing something and then quitting without saving first. It didn't work for the 'Delete' and 'Cancel' buttons. It did work for the 'Save' button, but that one is the default anyway, so I could've just pressed return instead.

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#178

Post by kup0 » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 3:56 PM UTC

It's just a personal preference, I guess, but I use an iMac + a gaming Windows 10 PC daily, and then a Linux laptop occasionally, and to me there is no comparison. The Mac and Linux systems are much preferable to Windows 10. I'm no fanboy, and generally dislike fanboyism in general. I have qualms with both Apple and Microsoft, and frustrations with Linux sometimes. But when the dust settles, I strongly prefer MacOS and Linux

I also think that Windows has worsened over time. Both 7 and 10 have their own pros and cons, but I feel 10 is just worse overall as an experience. There's so much unnecessary extra bloat (apps, UI, settings in two different places, annoying notifications) and weird UI mismatches. At least 7 felt mostly internally "consistent".

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#179

Post by Zardoz84 » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #68

nextos wrote: post #30

I have used all 3 major OS (Windows, Mac & Linux) for at least a decade each, and I review my current choice every few months. I have regained a lot of sanity by realizing computing happens within platforms, and regarding the OS as just plumbing. My platforms of choice are the web (for hypertext), elisp text applications (for interactive development, task management, email), and Unix. I only need a browser (Firefox),…

I'm kind of with you... next desktop will move from hackintosh to linux proper. I've used enough linux in remote shells, vms and via docker. I really like OSX and the Windows taskbar, but it's at a point where the hardware decisions of Apple leave me unsupportive of their hardware, and similarly their OS. Likely to use Pop_OS! (weird spelling, hope they change it), as I do like Ubuntu/Debian, but want a faster pace o…

use KDE and enable global menu. You would feel more similar to OSX

Re: The state of switching to Windows from Mac in 2019

#180

Post by Alas1 » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

vetinari wrote: post #160

bschwindHN wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have screenshots that can demonstrate this? I'm surprised to hear it, I'm fairly picky about visual quality but I've never noticed an issue with PDFs on MacOS or iOS. Never used a low PPI screen with them though.

Many windows users consider macOS font rendering at low dpi blurry, and windows font rendering crispy. It's just what they are used to.

This has nothing to do with that. In fact I am a "Mac user" driven to Windows solely because of this issue.

Aside from blurry PDFs, I also used to like font rendering in OS X and prefer it to Windows but unfortunately it also got screwed up with Mojave after they disabled subpixel rendering.