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Libra, 2 Weeks In

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Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#181

Post by benj111 »

wickoff wrote: post #175
IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

Check out FX charts for Russian Ruble, Argentinian Peso, Turkish Lyra or even the British Pound. Then ask yourself which of these countries have financial institutions that allow their clients to seamlessly transact in more stable currencies like US dollar or Euro and you have your answer.

"Russian Ruble, Argentinian Peso, Turkish Lyra or even the British Pound....more stable currencies like US dollar or Euro"

I know Brexit has taken its toll, but its not quite that bad.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#182

Post by felxh »

benj111 wrote: post #177
teekert wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands (or the EU) banking is sort of changing, we have some Fintech companies moving into the space (bunq, revolut, N26). I'm a customer at bunq and they are a breath of fresh air, I can: * Have 25 separated accounts or savings goals * Share any bank account (or savings goal) with anyone (using bunq) * On the fly couple my passes to any of the accounts * Use NFC on my Android phone to pay * Have a websit…

"On the fly couple my passes to any of the accounts" I don't understand what you mean by this?

You can link any of your bank cards to any of your accounts using the mobile app (change is instant AFAIK) You can even configure different pin codes per card, where each pin code corresponds to a different account

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#183

Post by benj111 »

dirktheman wrote: post #178
benj111 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"On the fly couple my passes to any of the accounts" I don't understand what you mean by this?

Shoddy translation from Dutch, but he probably means that you can link any of your Bunq bank accounts to any of the Bunq banking cards you have.

Interesting thanks.

So presumably you link to your beer money account on a night out, expenses account on a work trip, etc, etc, but its all on one physical card.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#184

Post by roel_v »

H8crilA wrote: post #145
Lucadg wrote: post #127

This is the part where they reveal how they plan to negotiate with regulators: "At the core, we believe that a network that helps move more cash transactions — where a lot of illicit activities happen — to a digital network that features regulated on and off ramps with proper know-your-customer (KYC) practices, combined with the ability for law enforcement and regulators to conduct their own analysis of on-chain acti…

Not to defend them, but this is exactly what happens to all non cash transactions. Which you kind of have to do to with any sizeable quantity of money (say over 100k) for practical reasons, like theft.

"all non cash transactions. Which you kind of have to do to with any sizeable quantity of money (say over 100k)"

Sort of related, in the Netherlands, we will soon (2 years or so) have a ban on cash transaction of more than 3000 euros. Not to one-up, just saying that it's happening. To be fair, I contribute to this by doing pretty much all payments electronically. Just like I contribute to local bookstores disappearing by buying from Amazon, although I claim to like local bookstores.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#185

Post by the_seraphim »

teekert wrote: post #169
IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

In the Netherlands (or the EU) banking is sort of changing, we have some Fintech companies moving into the space (bunq, revolut, N26). I'm a customer at bunq and they are a breath of fresh air, I can: * Have 25 separated accounts or savings goals * Share any bank account (or savings goal) with anyone (using bunq) * On the fly couple my passes to any of the accounts * Use NFC on my Android phone to pay * Have a websit…

I wonder if bunq is available in the UK then... if not i might be looking into some similar setups for me

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#186

Post by marc3842h »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

I like to argue that Libra has the potential to become a widespread "mainstream"-like Cryptocurrency. Mainstream is the important factor here.

Sending money internationally takes several days currently and comes with high fees.

If Facebook implements Libra into their platforms such as Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger, Instagram etc. this brings less familiar people in contact with Cryptocurrency.

People might start to use it because of way faster international money transfers and (most likely) less fees. I know I will because of that reason.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#187

Post by jillesvangurp »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

Very easy: convenience, security, and cost. You are right that consumers will care little about the cost aspect, because it is largely hidden from them (even though they pay for it indirectly) but they do care about convenience and security. Online payments are actually not really that convenient. That's why Amazon is so popular because they sort of shield you from having to setup payments with each of the merchants they proxy for you. This convenience comes at a price; Amazon is not a charity and highly profitable.

Copying credit card numbers all over the place is tedious and risky and people are kind of nervous about it for valid reasons. Swiping cards like a caveman is already a thing of the past and also not that safe. There's a huge amount of friction around payments for both users and merchants both online and offline. Even cash has a cost for merchants.

Contact-less payments with cards or phones are rapidly replacing cash payments (more convenient). But of course online you basically still get to copy credit card details around or deal with middle men like paypal or one of the many direct debit systems in many countries.

BTC is nice as a gold alternative and similarly tedious to transact with. It's useless for payments as transactions are extremely slow and rate limited to a ridiculous ~5 transactions per second globally. Price volatility means that it is hard to price things in it because you have to update the prices continuously. Ethereum is useless for the same reasons (in its current form).

Libra will require a bit of selling and educating obviously but actually comes with all the tools needed to make that easy. E.g. micro payments and tipping are very easy to implement on it and you could use that to incentivize users with e.g. bonuses, tiny refunds/rebates, etc. Integrating payments into chat removes a lot of friction for the user. And once there are enough merchants adopting this that incentivize users to use this, adoption could be quite rapid. Having low transaction fees will make this very interesting for merchants.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#188

Post by johnmarcus »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

that's a valid vue from the top of the dollar pyramid, but if your much lower and your local "dollar" doesn't have kind of sway in the world, than this starts making more sense. Look at Venezuela - if the citizens opted in to buy a stable coin (which they can easily do, unlike purchasing physical US dollars, which they can not easily do) than a currency like Libra makes a lot more sense.

everyone seems to think crypto is for the first world, it's not, it's for the third worlds. will it empower the citizens like they claim? i don't know, but they definitely have a more valid use case.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#189

Post by johnmarcus »

spaced-out wrote: post #102
IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

There are millions of people around the world that are unbanked. Especially in 3rd world countries, they get on the internet by buying the cheapest possible smartphone and data with cash. I was just in the Philippines, and I saw places selling access to only Facebook and WhatsApp, in increments of 30MB of data, for cash. The problem for Facebook is that these people can't buy anything online, because they don't have…

yes, this.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#190

Post by arcticbull »

H8crilA wrote: post #180
SuperNinjaCat wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another question on my mind (again, just my random thoughts, not representing others) is: How could this be used to undermine countries economies who are possibly earmarked for regime change by a company with strong ties to the US State Department affect the current geopolitical landscape...especially when some "developing nations" populations literally see Facebook as the Internet?

Same as Trump's (and his predecessors) financial blacklists. Huawei CFO is prosecuted and currently in home arrest in Canada awaiting extradition to the US for allegedly bypassing sanctions on Iran. In simpler words: another US-domiciled lever that can be switched to the off position.

> Huawei CFO is prosecuted and currently in home arrest in Canada awaiting extradition to the US for allegedly bypassing sanctions on Iran.

Huawei's CFO is currently on "house arrest" in a $10 million dollar estate in one of Vancouver's best neighborhoods, but free to move about the city so long as she's accompanied by a minder. As contrasted with the Canadians that China has kidnapped in retaliation and remain in secret prisons 8 months later with limited consular services. [1]

She's under arrest for wire fraud because to be extradited from Canada you have to have committed what would be a crime in Canada, and violating US sanctions is not a crime in Canada. She is not awaiting extradition, the trial hasn't happened yet, and she may well not be extradited if this is in fact primarily case of US extraterritoriality. One of her best arguments, per usual, is Trump's comments on the whole situation.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-08/huawei-cf...

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