Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, knobs as shown in the screenshot are afwul in an usability’s point of view (how do i rotate this, how to fine tune the value), but they convey the information in the context of music plugins really well for the person most likely to use them.
Yes, how does one adjust the setting of a knob? Gestures?
Photon Micro GUI
71–80 of 127 posts
Re: Photon Micro GUI
#72Please, please, please don’t use a GUI toolkit like this, that draws its own widgets rather than using platform standard ones, when developing a plugin for a digital audio workstation (e.g. VST or Audio Unit), as this author is apparently doing. Unless someone puts in all the extra effort to implement platform-specific accessibility APIs for said toolkit. Inaccessible DAW plugins are a problem for blind musicians and…
Likewise, accessibility capabilities rely on very standard generic UI capabilities. Once you go beyond that with professional tooling, accessibility will have to be custom as well.
Re: Photon Micro GUI
#73Please, please, please don’t use a GUI toolkit like this, that draws its own widgets rather than using platform standard ones, when developing a plugin for a digital audio workstation (e.g. VST or Audio Unit), as this author is apparently doing. Unless someone puts in all the extra effort to implement platform-specific accessibility APIs for said toolkit. Inaccessible DAW plugins are a problem for blind musicians and…
It isn’t really a problem of being cross platform: I don’t think platform UIs have enough richness to handle such applications without a lot of non standard components. You can only do so much with sliders. Likewise, accessibility capabilities rely on very standard generic UI capabilities. Once you go beyond that with professional tooling, accessibility will have to be custom as well.
Re: Photon Micro GUI
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, how does one adjust the setting of a knob? Gestures?
A lot of DAWs use these. With the ones I have used you click the knob and then drag (up to turn the knob left, down for right). It's really horrible actually.
Re: Photon Micro GUI
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
It isn’t really a problem of being cross platform: I don’t think platform UIs have enough richness to handle such applications without a lot of non standard components. You can only do so much with sliders. Likewise, accessibility capabilities rely on very standard generic UI capabilities. Once you go beyond that with professional tooling, accessibility will have to be custom as well.
I'm not convinced that standard controls are insufficient for a DAW plugin UI. Can you please explain why? Is it all about looks, or are there actually usability problems for sighted users?
Real time scrubbing and mixing with...a screen reader...how does that even work? I’m sure it could work, but you would still wind up with something as custom as seen here, perhaps even more so. Accessibility isn’t a free lunch except in very generic limited use contexts.
Re: Photon Micro GUI
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, if you have to click up, then down, then up again, and down to nail down a "just right" value, those buttons would be more difficult but their operation would be apparent. You might be able to get to a "just right" value if mousedown can be held while the cursor is moved between the buttons but a slider is probably better. The knob behavior you're describing is essentially an invisible slider. An invisible line…
It's not non-intuitive. The most acclaimed UIs for audio software are littered with knobs, and they have to be. You're talking about dozens to hundreds of continuous parameters that need to be dialed in by hand in conjunction with the user's ears. It's also common practice to have a hotkey like ctrl to swap between coarse/fine tuning of the parameters, so you can dial it in without changing controls or letting go of…
That doesn't make them intuitive, they're merely familiar to people already familiar with such audio software.
> hotkey like ctrl to swap between coarse/fine tuning of the parameters
Image editors and video editors have keys like that too, they're not related to knobs.
> In your first example, you've just made a knob that doesn't look like a knob
That's great! I preserved the functionality while making the action more apparent.
> a rotary slider's state is decoupled from the input
That's what I'm criticizing.
> Not to mention, you have an infinite 2D area to traverse to change the knob value with respect to the widget itself, not a finite, defined path.
The visual feedback of both sliders and knobs are both restricted to finite, defined paths. Whether the control of the input is restricted to that path depends on how it was designed. With some sliders, you can only move the control when the cursor remains without the bounds of the slider the iTunes volume control for example. With other sliders, once you've clicked on the control, the cursor can be outside the slider, I think this is the "infinite 2D area" you're talking about. The macOS menu bar volume and Sound Preferences sliders are examples of this latter behavior, I also found this example (you need to click the play button for the code to run).
https://editor.p5js.org/Joemckay/sketches/rk2edzTIb
> That means any behavior where a click resets the position (like clicking just past the current position) is broken
Yes, for what knobs are used for, you wouldn't want a slider control to jump to whatever point on its line was clicked on. This is another behavior that is found on some sliders (both iTunes and macOS Sound volume controls) but not others (the P5 example above).
Re: Photon Micro GUI
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean with "spin out"? (sorry English is not my first language)
Take Skia and promote it as a toolkit independent from Android, Chrome, etc.
Re: Photon Micro GUI
#78My current fantasy is that Apple would open-source SwiftUI and the industry converges around that for native UIs, adding support for custom third-party skins/themes later. If they can already do it for such distinct devices as Mac, iPhone, iPad, TV and Watch, there's no reason it can' be adapted for Windows, Linux and Android as well. This is something that should have happened 5 years ago, before Electron etc. had a…
Re: Photon Micro GUI
#79Re: Photon Micro GUI
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a good knob it’s not an arc but just clicking and dragging straight up or down that makes it move. A lot of VST audio plugins work like this and they get a lot of controls into a small area like this.
But then the gesture doesn't correspond to the interface at all. You could get the compactness plus a visual that corresponds by having something like a vertical slider that appears when you mousedown on the spot.
I remember learning soft synths when I was 11 - 12 years old and back then it maybe took me a few minutes to get it. Come on.