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Libra, 2 Weeks In

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Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#111

Post by dmix »

hajile wrote: post #82
dmix wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Libra consortium is based in Switzerland, so the businesses involved have guaranteed essentially zero government oversight. Do you really think a massive US company using some Switzerland corporation is going to protect Facebook and their investors against any regulatory scrutiny?

Yes. Facebook is undoubtedly incorporated in other countries as well. The US could pressure Facebook, but they could move servers elsewhere. Even if they didn't, the US would have to pressure every single company involved. More importantly, the US can't just audit bank records from another country. They can't go after Facebook unless they can prove wrongdoing. Offshore accounts protect a lot of bad people for this ve…

The US just prosecuted Walmart in US courts for stuff their Brazilian HQ did in Brazil.

I'm sure the US could find a way to do the same for Facebook and their investors for how they're using Libra inside the US.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#112

Post by sealthedeal »

Are you saying with Libra, I will be able to let my balance fall below zero and you will take no recourse? This sounds amazing!!!! I can’t wait to spend money that’s not in my account with no penalty!

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#114

Post by School-Cotton »

spaced-out wrote: post #102
IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

There are millions of people around the world that are unbanked. Especially in 3rd world countries, they get on the internet by buying the cheapest possible smartphone and data with cash. I was just in the Philippines, and I saw places selling access to only Facebook and WhatsApp, in increments of 30MB of data, for cash. The problem for Facebook is that these people can't buy anything online, because they don't have…

> If Libra launches successfully and remains stable, those same places selling X MB of data for cash, could easily start selling Libra too.

Why couldn’t they sell prepaid Visa cards, or Venmo/PayPal (or whatever is the local equivalent) top-ups?

I get that having access to brokers that will sell a globally recognized hard currency for local cash is super useful, especially if it’s in electronic form.

I don’t get why it’s useful for it to be a blockchain, or why Facebook is the most likely company to run it successfully. When I ask people this the answer seems to be some hand-waving about regulation, but if this is hard for Venmo and PayPal to offer because of regulation, why would throwing around the word “blockchain” magically make it any easier for Facebook?

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#115

Post by adventured »

jankotek wrote: post #110
spaced-out wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are millions of people around the world that are unbanked. Especially in 3rd world countries, they get on the internet by buying the cheapest possible smartphone and data with cash. I was just in the Philippines, and I saw places selling access to only Facebook and WhatsApp, in increments of 30MB of data, for cash. The problem for Facebook is that these people can't buy anything online, because they don't have…

I am not sure about Philippines, but most African countries have better mobile banking than US.

That's not true. These days even the smallest US banks tend to have mobile apps or normal mobile banking options. All the major banks without exception do. That has been true for years at this point.

Deposits, moving money in various ways, checking balances or statements, bill pay, customer service, etc etc. What exactly is missing that is important that American banking desperately lacks? The larger banks are borderline obnoxious with the options ('features') they try push on you, for what their mobile banking offers now.

The only thing I can think of, is easy & instant account funds transfer from one person's bank account to another person's bank account (which is a structural flaw in the US system, and which PayPal & Co. fill).

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#116

Post by msravi »

jankotek wrote: post #110
spaced-out wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are millions of people around the world that are unbanked. Especially in 3rd world countries, they get on the internet by buying the cheapest possible smartphone and data with cash. I was just in the Philippines, and I saw places selling access to only Facebook and WhatsApp, in increments of 30MB of data, for cash. The problem for Facebook is that these people can't buy anything online, because they don't have…

I am not sure about Philippines, but most African countries have better mobile banking than US.

Yes, and India too. Every little roadside vendor now accepts Paytm or PhonePe or Google Pay or Mobikwik or Freecharge. The only way to get money into these mobile wallets is either by linking to a bank account, linking to a credit card, or by doing a wallet-to-wallet transfer.

But what surprises me is the extent of penetration of these wallets despite not being cash based. To a large extent, this success is probably attributable to the "glue" between these disparate wallets - the government-launched UPI or Unified Payments Interface (https://www.npci.org.in/product-overview/upi-product-overvie...), which allows you to link any of these wallets directly to your bank account.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#117

Post by um_ya »

School-Cotton wrote: post #114
spaced-out wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are millions of people around the world that are unbanked. Especially in 3rd world countries, they get on the internet by buying the cheapest possible smartphone and data with cash. I was just in the Philippines, and I saw places selling access to only Facebook and WhatsApp, in increments of 30MB of data, for cash. The problem for Facebook is that these people can't buy anything online, because they don't have…

> If Libra launches successfully and remains stable, those same places selling X MB of data for cash, could easily start selling Libra too. Why couldn’t they sell prepaid Visa cards, or Venmo/PayPal (or whatever is the local equivalent) top-ups? I get that having access to brokers that will sell a globally recognized hard currency for local cash is super useful, especially if it’s in electronic form. I don’t get why…

It won't. Unless Facebook decides to ditch KYC and compete with government currencies themselves, it won't help anyone.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#118

Post by [deleted] »

spaced-out wrote: post #102
IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

There are millions of people around the world that are unbanked. Especially in 3rd world countries, they get on the internet by buying the cheapest possible smartphone and data with cash. I was just in the Philippines, and I saw places selling access to only Facebook and WhatsApp, in increments of 30MB of data, for cash. The problem for Facebook is that these people can't buy anything online, because they don't have…

[deleted]

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#119

Post by TACIXAT »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

Reasons I'm interested, stability and transaction fees. You don't want to pay someone in a deflationary currency, as their salary will always increase. A stable coin solves this in allowing people to actually use it.

The lower fees enable micro transactions which is something that I believe the internet needs in order to move away from ads. I'd happily pay a fraction of a cent per page view, there is no good way to do that right now.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#120

Post by anonytrary »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

> They don't care about how the banking system works and who controls the flow of money

That's because the person controlling the flow of money hasn't taken enough away from them. History has plenty of examples where a centralized controller went "too far", causing a mass exodus.

This is very hyperbolized, but consumerism and society today is truly reminiscent of a rat inside a cage with infinite sugar water, cocaine, and a steady supply of new mates.

---

As for Libra, what is Facebooks plan? The only way I can see them winding up on top is if they make the "next Bitcoin" where they own like ~10% of the supply, kinda like Satoshi. I don't see Libra working if it's centralized.

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