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Libra, 2 Weeks In

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Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#71

Post by ambicapter »

iso-8859-1 wrote: post #24
diab0lic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious: Does the lightning network provide all of the same guarantees that the standard Bitcoin network provides? What are the downsides? Why isn't the lightning network used all the time instead of the Bitcoin protocol?

The downside is that there is no market for watchtowers yet (so you need be online while having channels open). Another disadvantage is that if you control your key, you must be online. Like, if you run an HTTP server, you must have a machine. With plain Bitcoin you can spend to a pubkey and it doesn't have to be online

How does the transaction appear on the blockchain if you're not online?

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#72

Post by b_tterc_p »

clarkmoody wrote: post #51
carlosdp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not more decentralized than Libra today[1]. Libra has 28 members, going to 100. The top 11 bitcoin mining pools control 99% of the hashrate. [1] https://www.blockchain.com/pools

Pools are groups of miners. If the pool operator starts behaving badly, the constituent miners will point their hashpower elsewhere.

You forgot a “might” in there.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#73

Post by chillacy »

mromanuk wrote: post #9

Call me pessimist, but cartelized private global corporations owning and “printing” money can only bring bad things. It is centralized and is controlled by an elite.

Banks used to print banknotes, and still do in some places. As long as those notes are backed by assets, what’s the problem?

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#74

Post by shitgoose »

the moment libra is exchanged for fiat, it is under scrutiny (know your client etc). fbi routinely nails various e-gold enterprises, where clients exchange fiat for tokens and freely transact tokens across the globe. all it takes is to open a couple of libra accounts and send a transaction with "hurt as many americans as possible" in the details. a lot of people were busted for a lot less than that.

imagine high volume small denomination libra transactions between florida and colombia - fb will spend the rest of their days trying to explain to fbi they didn't mean no harm.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#75

Post by hajile »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #2

I have been following Libra very closely, and have read their white paper twice. There have been a few good discussions here on HN when it launched [0], but I think most of these have been very biased against anything Facebook-related. I find the launch of Libra a really interesting "experiment", with potentially big negative or positive consequences for the entire world. Right now, it's really hard to judge on the t…

When you're talking about controlling money, politics matter more than "technical merit".

Libra is invite only and they invited their business friends.

Libra consortium is based in Switzerland, so the businesses involved have guaranteed essentially zero government oversight.

Libra's owners have complete control over how much currency, the currency exchange rate, and even inflation rates (note that inflation is actually a tax on wealth).

I can't regulate it. I can't get my government to regulate it. I can't get a non-partisan consortium to regulate it (eg, Bitcoin). Businesses proven to put profits first have complete control. I have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

I don't care about the technical merit; everything about this stinks.

EDIT: and all that is before the privacy aspect. While accounts may be "anonymous", Facebook can use their data to identify you anyway. I don't like these big date companies tracking my friends or website visits. I certainly don't want them tracking my money too.

There's also the wrongthink aspect. Recent leaks from different companies seem to show them exerting political power and banning dissent. My political opinions may align with their now, but I'd bet anything that sooner or later, I'll disagree with them on something. I don't want my financial stability based on a platform that punishes me for thinking or believing "the wrong thing" (which could just be saying something critical about the companies in control).

Libra giving economic power to companies is straight out of fascism.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#77

Post by probe »

"It’s easy to assume from the headlines that Libra is only associated with Facebook, but that is not the case."

With the post on.... Facebook.com

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#78

Post by dmix »

hajile wrote: post #75
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #2

I have been following Libra very closely, and have read their white paper twice. There have been a few good discussions here on HN when it launched [0], but I think most of these have been very biased against anything Facebook-related. I find the launch of Libra a really interesting "experiment", with potentially big negative or positive consequences for the entire world. Right now, it's really hard to judge on the t…

When you're talking about controlling money, politics matter more than "technical merit". Libra is invite only and they invited their business friends. Libra consortium is based in Switzerland, so the businesses involved have guaranteed essentially zero government oversight. Libra's owners have complete control over how much currency, the currency exchange rate, and even inflation rates (note that inflation is actual…

> Libra consortium is based in Switzerland, so the businesses involved have guaranteed essentially zero government oversight.

Do you really think a massive US company using some Switzerland corporation is going to protect Facebook and their investors against any regulatory scrutiny?

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#79

Post by carlosdp »

javert wrote: post #67
carlosdp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not more decentralized than Libra today[1]. Libra has 28 members, going to 100. The top 11 bitcoin mining pools control 99% of the hashrate. [1] https://www.blockchain.com/pools

Bitcoin is more decentralized than Facebook's coin no matter what because mining is controlled by an algorithm, rather than being an invite-only club.

In theory, sure. In practice, the miner implementations are the ones controlling the chain. The only difference is, I can name the CEOs and leaders of many of the Libra companies, I don't know who the leaders of the mining pools are.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#80

Post by danShumway »

seibelj wrote: post #44

One thing that’s been nice since the Libra announcement is the number of knee-jerk reaction “cryptocurrency is 100% useless and look at this NIST blockchain flow chart hurrr hurrrr” comments have mostly disappeared. It seems like crypto is not totally useless after all, but the biggest threat to humanity ever created... or something...

Crypto isn't the reason why Libra is dangerous, Facebook is.

If Facebook was launching their own business-controlled currency that was backed by an SQL database, you'd see the exact same reaction. The crypto part is just an implementation detail, what people are actually upset about is corporations trying to seize control of our currency.

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