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Libra, 2 Weeks In

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Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#61

Post by javert »

whatshisface wrote: post #13
mromanuk wrote: post #9

Call me pessimist, but cartelized private global corporations owning and “printing” money can only bring bad things. It is centralized and is controlled by an elite.

The Fed isn't? It has more private board members than appointed board members, and some have argued that it has consistently prioritized the interests of the banks at the expense of encouraging leverage like cash is going out of style. This is closer to a battle between west coast elites and east coast elites than it is about the people versus the elites.

> The Fed isn't?

This kind of response derails the discussion. Yes, the Fed is centralized, too. That doesn't defeat the point you are responding to.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#62

Post by javert »

hartator wrote: post #58
gexla wrote: post #52

> At the core, we believe that a network that helps move more cash transactions — where a lot of illicit activities happen — to a digital network that features regulated on and off ramps with proper know-your-customer (KYC) practices, combined with the ability for law enforcement and regulators to conduct their own analysis of on-chain activity, will be a big opportunity to increase the efficacy of financial crimes m…

Know your customer is BS. It's just an excuse to invade your privacy and ask you personal questions.

That's not true. People who don't do KYC to their customers go to prison.

KYC exists for the same reason the drug war exists: People believe in paternalism and want to feel that there is some greater power that is in control. And there are people with guns and throw-you-in-prison capability who are happy to make it so.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#63

Post by provolone »

kennywinker wrote: post #43
awt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also it has a government enforced monopoly.

That’s a ridiculous statement if you consider the fed a part of the government. I.e. the fire department and police both have “government enforced monopolies”. The government itself is a “government enforced monopoly”

Hardly.

The alternative would be a repeal of legal tender laws. This would allow consumers & businesses to transact in the currency of their choice.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#64

Post by javert »

emef wrote: post #4
hndamien wrote: post #3

Short of transaction speed and cost, there is so little that is appealing in this compared to Bitcoin, and it has all of the centralisation and compliance pitfalls that a neutral, free (liberty), decentralised money already avoids.

Transaction cost and speed are enormous problems for bitcoin, not sure why that would only be mildly appealing to solve. Not vouching for Libra, but my understanding of bitcoin was that it caps out at something ridiculously low like 11 transactions/second, which each cost multiple USD. Clearly that is the bottleneck that needs to be addressed by whatever would lead crypto moving forward (I remember reading visa proce…

There is an extremely easy way to get over that issue. It has already been solved for all fiat currencies. When big banks transfer dollars between one another, their balances at the Fed get updated to reflect this. But this doesn't happen for 99.9% of transactions.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#65

Post by 0xDEFC0DE »

skybrian wrote: post #55
0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #31

>With Libra, anyone with a $40 smartphone and connectivity will have the ability to securely safeguard their assets, access the world economy, transact at a much lower cost, and over time access a whole range of financial services. Bad actors will lift old exploitative models into Libra's ecosystem: payday loans with huge interest rates, wallet services that force a deposit and allow you to overspend and charge fees…

Wouldn't much of this also be true of other kinds of phone-based payment, such as M-Pesa?

Probably. M-Pesa sounds like a bank itself. Are deposits insured in any way? Do they work with victims to restore their account balances?

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#66

Post by gopher2 »

hndamien wrote: post #3

Short of transaction speed and cost, there is so little that is appealing in this compared to Bitcoin, and it has all of the centralisation and compliance pitfalls that a neutral, free (liberty), decentralised money already avoids.

The large price fluctuations that bitcoin has are also undesirable for some.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#67

Post by javert »

carlosdp wrote: post #37
r32a_ wrote: post #6

Let's call this for what it really is, they want to replace democracy with Corporatism. At least with a government backed currency we get a choice on who runs the government. Even though that power is constantly being eroded. The companies that run Libra however have 0 obligation to users of Libra but only to maximise profits for their shareholders. This is their plan: * Dedicate a lot of resources to spread the adop…

Bitcoin is not more decentralized than Libra today[1]. Libra has 28 members, going to 100. The top 11 bitcoin mining pools control 99% of the hashrate. [1] https://www.blockchain.com/pools

Bitcoin is more decentralized than Facebook's coin no matter what because mining is controlled by an algorithm, rather than being an invite-only club.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#68

Post by mbesto »

javert wrote: post #57
mbesto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it isn't fully apparent, the people can vote out a president that controls the Fed. There is no such option to the "100 member companies". Also, the Fed is US only...so there's that. The scary thing about Libra is that it truly has the potential for global-scale "boil the frog" ramifications.

> Even if it isn't fully apparent, the people can vote out a president that controls the Fed. The president of the United States does not control the Fed, if that's what you're saying. The current U.S. president is extremely unhappy with the current Fed chairman and has repeatedly demanded that the Fed alter its policies, to no avail. > Also, the Fed is US only...so there's that The U.S. dollar is pretty global.

> The current U.S. president is extremely unhappy with the current Fed chairman and has repeatedly demanded that the Fed alter its policies, to no avail.

And yet he nominated him. What's your point? AFAIK he also technically has the power to fire him too.

> The U.S. dollar is pretty global.

Can you use the dollar to buy food at a foodstand in Germany? No. Just because certain aspects of the global economy are driven by the dollar, doesn't mean everything can be transacted with it. Libra is meant for companies to be able to transact business globally under one currency.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#69

Post by b_tterc_p »

seibelj wrote: post #44

One thing that’s been nice since the Libra announcement is the number of knee-jerk reaction “cryptocurrency is 100% useless and look at this NIST blockchain flow chart hurrr hurrrr” comments have mostly disappeared. It seems like crypto is not totally useless after all, but the biggest threat to humanity ever created... or something...

Lots of useless things can become useful if powerful people say they’re important now. It doesn’t say much about the underlying tech.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#70

Post by provolone »

r32a_ wrote: post #6

Let's call this for what it really is, they want to replace democracy with Corporatism. At least with a government backed currency we get a choice on who runs the government. Even though that power is constantly being eroded. The companies that run Libra however have 0 obligation to users of Libra but only to maximise profits for their shareholders. This is their plan: * Dedicate a lot of resources to spread the adop…

From my reading corporatism is defined as the government dictating economic policy via various syndicates. I.e. the business owner retains nominal control over the means of production, but the actual production decisions are made by an industry-wide government bureau.
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