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Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

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Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#31

Post by shrikant »

Locke1689 wrote: post #29
gallerytungsten wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The system" slows the process because there is systemic corruption. Just as cops don't want to be photographed, prosecutors don't want their convictions overturned. So they don't play fair, and do everything they can to avoid true justice.

Citation?

In general, I couldn't say. (Also, a citation showing that the people who are ostensibly meant to uphold the law are in fact not playing fair and doing everything they can avoid justice..? What? How would that work)

But a nice example would be this very case - even after the case was basically retro-actively thrown out, the prosecutor's office still maintain everything was kosher. (They still maintain that Collins is guilty - seriously, what the fuck?)

Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#32

Post by rlpb »

chapel wrote: post #7
Detrus wrote: post #6

What are the typical consequences to the corrupt prosecutor and police department in a case like this?

Unless they blatantly broke the law in some provable way, probably nothing. Though as with the guy in this case, he can sue the State/City for wrongful imprisonment and other issues.

> Unless they blatantly broke the law in some provable way, probably nothing.

It seems to me that they should apply the same burden of proof. If a murderer can be convicted on eyewitness evidence, why should the same eyewitness evidence not be sufficient to demonstrate prosecutor corruption?

On the other hand I can understand why they have immunity (although this doesn't affect guilt).

Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#33

Post by joe_the_user »

shrikant wrote: post #30
joe_the_user wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, While unbiased eye-witness testimony might be well unreliable, the story mostly shows DA and corruption. He got out of jail by showing the people who testified against him were quite biased indeed - They were "motivated" to act by police and DA threats and the DA had systematically lied concerning this process... It's also rather heart-rending to read how he had to engage in fraud to discover the truth and natu…

[Interestingly] The judge Robert Holdman who shot down his appeal because of this fraud, has a (IMHO) history of being overly harsh. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZrFEGVE... (search for 'Holdman' on that page)

When I reading the story, that part was just screaming at me. In my limited knowledge of the law, the guy got incredibly lucky in having illegally gain evidence accepted in a court of law (from a defendant).

It's mind blowing to think about being in a situation where the only way to get justice is to break the law. It sounds good in action movie but in real life, it's appalling...

Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#34

Post by iwwr »

Detrus wrote: post #6

What are the typical consequences to the corrupt prosecutor and police department in a case like this?

Mike Nifong, the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse case was eventually disbarred and faces multi-million dollar lawsuits (which he will lose almost certainly). Although I think that is more the exception. Prosecutors face almost no downside to corruption.

Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#35

Post by yxhuvud »

joe_the_user wrote: post #33
shrikant wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Interestingly] The judge Robert Holdman who shot down his appeal because of this fraud, has a (IMHO) history of being overly harsh. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZrFEGVE... (search for 'Holdman' on that page)

When I reading the story, that part was just screaming at me. In my limited knowledge of the law, the guy got incredibly lucky in having illegally gain evidence accepted in a court of law (from a defendant). It's mind blowing to think about being in a situation where the only way to get justice is to break the law. It sounds good in action movie but in real life, it's appalling...

Being a foreigner, it's mind blowing that how evidence is procured matter.

Evidence is evidence. If there were illegal actions while collecting it, then those actions should be prosecuted, but evidence is still evidence and should be used.

Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#36

Post by [deleted] »

yxhuvud wrote: post #35
joe_the_user wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I reading the story, that part was just screaming at me. In my limited knowledge of the law, the guy got incredibly lucky in having illegally gain evidence accepted in a court of law (from a defendant). It's mind blowing to think about being in a situation where the only way to get justice is to break the law. It sounds good in action movie but in real life, it's appalling...

Being a foreigner, it's mind blowing that how evidence is procured matter. Evidence is evidence. If there were illegal actions while collecting it, then those actions should be prosecuted, but evidence is still evidence and should be used.

[deleted]

Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#37

Post by eru »

yxhuvud wrote: post #35
joe_the_user wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I reading the story, that part was just screaming at me. In my limited knowledge of the law, the guy got incredibly lucky in having illegally gain evidence accepted in a court of law (from a defendant). It's mind blowing to think about being in a situation where the only way to get justice is to break the law. It sounds good in action movie but in real life, it's appalling...

Being a foreigner, it's mind blowing that how evidence is procured matter. Evidence is evidence. If there were illegal actions while collecting it, then those actions should be prosecuted, but evidence is still evidence and should be used.

As far as I know the legal system, in say, Germany doesn't recognize illegally gained evidence either.

Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#38

Post by [deleted] »

Locke1689 wrote: post #29
gallerytungsten wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The system" slows the process because there is systemic corruption. Just as cops don't want to be photographed, prosecutors don't want their convictions overturned. So they don't play fair, and do everything they can to avoid true justice.

Citation?

[deleted]

Re: Solitary Jailhouse Lawyer Argues His Way Out of Prison

#40

Post by jarin »

yxhuvud wrote: post #35
joe_the_user wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I reading the story, that part was just screaming at me. In my limited knowledge of the law, the guy got incredibly lucky in having illegally gain evidence accepted in a court of law (from a defendant). It's mind blowing to think about being in a situation where the only way to get justice is to break the law. It sounds good in action movie but in real life, it's appalling...

Being a foreigner, it's mind blowing that how evidence is procured matter. Evidence is evidence. If there were illegal actions while collecting it, then those actions should be prosecuted, but evidence is still evidence and should be used.

In the US, we (as a collective) hold sacrosanct the rights of a person against illegal searches and self-incrimination, as well as the 'innocent until proven guilty' doctrine. The idea is that it's better to let a criminal go than to convict an innocent person.

Disallowing illegally obtained evidence also has the effect of discouraging the police from illegally obtaining evidence in the first place and reducing opportunities for corruption. Of course, in this case it didn't work out so well, but you would see a lot more stories like this if sources of evidence weren't important.

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