Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Libra, 2 Weeks In

facebook.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 287 posts

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#21

Post by threeseed »

r32a_ wrote: post #6

Let's call this for what it really is, they want to replace democracy with Corporatism. At least with a government backed currency we get a choice on who runs the government. Even though that power is constantly being eroded. The companies that run Libra however have 0 obligation to users of Libra but only to maximise profits for their shareholders. This is their plan: * Dedicate a lot of resources to spread the adop…

I think you fundamentally misunderstand how currencies work. They are managed by central banks which are designed to be independent of the government of the day.

And corporates basically own and run the internet and it seems to be doing pretty well.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#23

Post by ma2rten »

skybrian wrote: post #19
r32a_ wrote: post #6

Let's call this for what it really is, they want to replace democracy with Corporatism. At least with a government backed currency we get a choice on who runs the government. Even though that power is constantly being eroded. The companies that run Libra however have 0 obligation to users of Libra but only to maximise profits for their shareholders. This is their plan: * Dedicate a lot of resources to spread the adop…

Could you explain why you think democracy is important and has much to do with how U.S. currency is managed? It seems to me that voters have very little influence on decisions made by the Federal Reserve, and that's intentional. We wouldn't want a central bank to be much influenced by the latest election. The Federal Reserve is a consortium of banks and tends to make decisions that are good for banks, so if you're wo…

The chair and board of the federal reserve are appointed by the president.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#24

Post by iso-8859-1 »

diab0lic wrote: post #12
r32a_ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Bitcoin will use Lightning Network for most everyday transactions and it's speed is only limited by network liquidity and bandwidth

Genuinely curious: Does the lightning network provide all of the same guarantees that the standard Bitcoin network provides? What are the downsides? Why isn't the lightning network used all the time instead of the Bitcoin protocol?

The downside is that there is no market for watchtowers yet (so you need be online while having channels open).

Another disadvantage is that if you control your key, you must be online. Like, if you run an HTTP server, you must have a machine. With plain Bitcoin you can spend to a pubkey and it doesn't have to be online

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#25

Post by spookthesunset »

r32a_ wrote: post #10
conanbatt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-Us national, I prefer FB corporatism to US democracy. Puts more people on even ground.

Or choose Bitcoin and have neither :)

Great until you bump up against that 7 transactions per second limit, the entire planet adopts it and and you get to wait multiple decades between transactions.

And before you say “lightning network” do realize that LN doesn’t exist and even if it did your solution is to avoid using bitcoin. Setting aside you still have to make transactions on the bitcoin blockchain before you can even play ball with LN.

Bitcoin/cryptocurrency is a giant scam marketed toward libertarians and certain STEM types. Why Facebook decided to hitch its horse to a giant scam is beyond me.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#26

Post by lanrh1836 »

My biggest question right now is how many people will want to use Libra enough to pass stringent KYC checks for a wallet like Facebook’s Calibra? You’ll need to give Facebook much more information than they have on a user today, such as photo ID, address, SSN, etc (depending on country).

My cynical view is that Calibra is actually the real value to Facebook here, and they are betting that it will be the biggest wallet by far. It will allow Facebook to reconcile millions if not billions of identities in ways they have not been able to to this date.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#27

Post by kbaker »

diab0lic wrote: post #12
r32a_ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Bitcoin will use Lightning Network for most everyday transactions and it's speed is only limited by network liquidity and bandwidth

Genuinely curious: Does the lightning network provide all of the same guarantees that the standard Bitcoin network provides? What are the downsides? Why isn't the lightning network used all the time instead of the Bitcoin protocol?

It requires some additional investment on the user's part.

Think of it like opening a secured credit card with cash. Faster and more convenient to use, since you can now use the credit card networks instead of the cash, but requires tying up the funds you want to use to pay with.

Also, the merchant/recipient has to be able to accept the payments, and the software is new / in beta still.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#28

Post by mbesto »

threeseed wrote: post #21
r32a_ wrote: post #6

Let's call this for what it really is, they want to replace democracy with Corporatism. At least with a government backed currency we get a choice on who runs the government. Even though that power is constantly being eroded. The companies that run Libra however have 0 obligation to users of Libra but only to maximise profits for their shareholders. This is their plan: * Dedicate a lot of resources to spread the adop…

I think you fundamentally misunderstand how currencies work. They are managed by central banks which are designed to be independent of the government of the day. And corporates basically own and run the internet and it seems to be doing pretty well.

> They are managed by central banks which are designed to be independent of the government of the day.

Heh, I think you fundamentally misunderstand how central banks work.

1. The US Mint creates the supply of currency in the US, which is literally governed by the government.[0]

2. It's literally governed by presidentially appointed officials.

3. The Fed manages the banking system, which is a trusted system that utilizes fiat currency as a medium of exchange. Their focus is much more aligned to economic prosperity and policy formulation then it is about how the "currency is managed" (the two are obviously interrelated).

> And corporates basically own and run the internet and it seems to be doing pretty well.

There's a big difference between "it basically does" and "it is".

EDIT: [0] - My bad, the BEP creates currency which is overseen by the Treasury, which is in fact a government entity.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#29

Post by awt »

ma2rten wrote: post #23
skybrian wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain why you think democracy is important and has much to do with how U.S. currency is managed? It seems to me that voters have very little influence on decisions made by the Federal Reserve, and that's intentional. We wouldn't want a central bank to be much influenced by the latest election. The Federal Reserve is a consortium of banks and tends to make decisions that are good for banks, so if you're wo…

The chair and board of the federal reserve are appointed by the president.

Also it has a government enforced monopoly.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#30

Post by mbesto »

whatshisface wrote: post #13
mromanuk wrote: post #9

Call me pessimist, but cartelized private global corporations owning and “printing” money can only bring bad things. It is centralized and is controlled by an elite.

The Fed isn't? It has more private board members than appointed board members, and some have argued that it has consistently prioritized the interests of the banks at the expense of encouraging leverage like cash is going out of style. This is closer to a battle between west coast elites and east coast elites than it is about the people versus the elites.

Even if it isn't fully apparent, the people can vote out a president that controls the Fed. There is no such option to the "100 member companies". Also, the Fed is US only...so there's that.

The scary thing about Libra is that it truly has the potential for global-scale "boil the frog" ramifications.

Post reply on HN