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Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

nytimes.com

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Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#81

Post by logfromblammo »

Nasrudith wrote: post #72
logfromblammo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about representation proportional to economic activity instead of the quantity of state-ness being one or zero? With guaranteed representation of at least one seat, so the representation turns out to be slightly skewed against the powerhouses. Also note that Puerto Rico and Washington DC earn their seat by virtue of having enough economic activity, rather than by default. "Seats" is senate seats per state; "rep"…

Economic activity would be a bad choice to tie to representation from perverse incentives. It would encourage outright sabotaging other states to preserve power when it would be more optimal to go with national net economic output instead of "best for my region". Essentially the same issues as regulatory capture but worse. It is also why auctioning off positions of power for fundraising would be a terrible idea - it…

It doesn't have to be a good choice; it just has to be better than "two per state, no matter what".

The perverse incentive there encourages secession, state-splitting, endless intractable battles over Puerto Rican statehood or DC representation, and engineering politics at the state level to influence interstate migrations based partly on political views on national issues.

I.e. Colorado decriminalizes recreational cannabis, and Alabama recriminalizes abortion. Lefties are incentivized to move from AL to CO, and righties the reverse. Everybody who voted Doug Jones leaves for literally greener pastures, and mall-menace Roy Moore wins the seat.

(Anecdotally, one of my co-workers is moving to Denver, and I have realized I am envious.)

It further incentivizes politically competitive states to do anything for just 0.1% of the vote, because that might just be the margin that gets you all the power, for six whole years, on election day.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#82

Post by slowmovintarget »

peteradio wrote: post #19
agarden wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk as if this were an unforeseen consequence of the way our legislature is set up. It is not. Giving the people who live in sparsely populated areas an equal voice with those who live in densely populated areas is the whole point of the Senate. It was designed to work this way and it is doing exactly what it was meant to do.

I don't think the disparity was expected and doubt the founders would conclude that sparsely populated states with very little economy should lead an entire branch. This is certainly not working.

The disparity was expected and that is part of the reason that the House of Representatives is based on population.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#83

Post by bunnyrooroo »

bduerst wrote: post #63
bunnyrooroo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UA is a decent University System, but not more than that. In fact, a few months ago, the University of Alaska Anchorage lost accreditation for their teacher program. Yes, you read that correctly. The largest University in Alaska lost their accreditation for a program that is one of the most needed in the state. Getting people to teach in Alaska is a major issue for obvious reasons, and the largest university in the s…

>the largest university in the state did such a poor job that they lost their ability to graduate licensed teachers. Maybe you can help me understand this, but how is the solution to cut funding further by 41%?

I actually don't agree with the severity if the cut, but the University System in Alaska is known for overspending and the massive amount of administrative jobs that don't go into the education of young minds.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#84

Post by magduf »

dragonwriter wrote: post #79
magduf wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's the voters' responsibility to understand this. They have no one to blame but themselves. Remember, we're adults now, we aren't children in a playground where we can call for adults to set things right when we screw up. The voters have the ultimate power to choose who runs the government, so the results are their own responsibility.

> Yes, but it's the voters' responsibility to understand this Perhaps, but “X was responsible for understanding that this would be the consequence” and “X was aware that this would be the consequence and actively preferred it” are very different claims.

I never claimed that all voters (for that candidate at least) would know beforehand exactly what actions s/he would take once in office. But it is their responsibility to know what they're voting for, and if they're stupid enough to believe vague or impossible campaign promises, that's entirely on them.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#85

Post by DuskStar »

scifi6546 wrote: post #80
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #71

Hard to feel bad for any higher-ed institutions nowadays. It's clear that degrees are essentially signaling that's captured by outrageously bloated, rent-seeking institutions. I'm completely sympathetic to the idealism that colleges are vital institutions of education, but there's something systemically wrong with college price, criminally so, and the issue isn't just "we're not spending enough."

UA is nothing like a corporation it is tied to the state. Yes it has quite a bit of waste but fundamentally the institutions goal is to do research and to educate

Fundamentally the goal of UA is to survive and grow, like all other organizations. If research and education furthers that goal, then that's what it'll attempt to do - but if bloat and cost disease further that goal expect to see those too.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#86

Post by slowmovintarget »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #67
surge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I heard it described, the annual payout will increase, where as that money now goes towards social programs primarily aimed at children and families. So while that money will be in citizen's pockets, it likely won't get spent in a manner that will benefit society long term.

> social programs primarily aimed at children and families > it likely won't get spent in a manner that will benefit society long term. I don't understand how you reconcile these two statements. Social safety nets benefit society long term.

... the poster you quote was saying the money will go into pockets instead of safety nets and this is likely for the worse. The statements are already reconciled.

The phrasing might have been a bit confusing, and this could lead one to think there was a conflict, but this was an agreement post.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#87

Post by scifi6546 »

DuskStar wrote: post #85
scifi6546 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UA is nothing like a corporation it is tied to the state. Yes it has quite a bit of waste but fundamentally the institutions goal is to do research and to educate

Fundamentally the goal of UA is to survive and grow, like all other organizations. If research and education furthers that goal, then that's what it'll attempt to do - but if bloat and cost disease further that goal expect to see those too.

surprisingly a lot of the people there actually care about science and some people care about teaching

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#88

Post by DuskStar »

scifi6546 wrote: post #87
DuskStar wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally the goal of UA is to survive and grow, like all other organizations. If research and education furthers that goal, then that's what it'll attempt to do - but if bloat and cost disease further that goal expect to see those too.

surprisingly a lot of the people there actually care about science and some people care about teaching

Oh, of course - but individual goals are not organisational imperatives.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#89

Post by elliekelly »

rayiner wrote: post #41
agarden wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk as if this were an unforeseen consequence of the way our legislature is set up. It is not. Giving the people who live in sparsely populated areas an equal voice with those who live in densely populated areas is the whole point of the Senate. It was designed to work this way and it is doing exactly what it was meant to do.

The point of the senate has nothing to do with giving people in sparsely populated areas the same vote. At the time, there wasn’t the same dichotomy created by people living in cities. The purpose of giving every state two senators is so that the states, as distinct sovereign entities, each have the same representation in the senate. It doesn’t matter how many people live there.

> The purpose of giving every state two senators is so that the states, as distinct sovereign entities, each have the same representation in the senate. It doesn’t matter how many people live there.

This piece of information seems to be skipped by almost every high school civics class. Senators were never supposed to represent the people, they were supposed to represent the state governments. The whole purpose of Senators having longer terms than the House and being elected by each state's legislature instead of a direct election was to insulate the Senate (and by extension, Congress) from populism.

Repealing the 17th amendment today would probably a bad idea for a number of reasons but the direct-election of the Senate certainly shifted a lot of power away from the state governments and to the GOP/DNC in a way that was never intended by the Founders.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#90

Post by RickJWagner »

bunnyrooroo wrote: post #31

Hello, I actually live in Alaska. I'm quite concerned about how the NY Times portrayed this. While I don't agree with all of the cuts to the University or the budget as a whole, the way this is being portrayed is interesting. If veto holds, and the cuts to the University take effect, Alaska will still spend 3 times as much per student than the average state. Yes, you heard that correct, Alaska will still contribute 3…

Thanks for providing this information.

Without it, the move seems pretty extreme. Knowing that 3x is being spent puts things in a much different light.

I wish NYT had reported more evenly. I feel sort of like they tried to skew people's thinking, beyond the pale.

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