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Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

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Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#31
post #24

The aggregation of local events on Facebook is second to none. I tried leaving that behind and found I was missing out on a litany of events not broadcast elsewhere. As long as that holds true, I maintain a spartan, unconnected, minimal account there.

Maybe that's the next big thing. A few now popular apps started as "that one thing the FB is used for but as a separate app". Instagram comes to mind.

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#32
I imagine a good number of people are like me and would like to close their Facebook account, but are afraid of losing that circle of friends and family that they have no other easy way of contacting.

A useful feature (albeit one that Facebook would never, ever implement, as it would facilitate people leaving their platform) would be to have closure page with a final statement or forwarding address, e.g.:

"I've decided to close my Facebook account. You can still reach me at: myname@emailprovider.com"

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#33
post #15

To me, Facebook provides enough value that I don't feel the benefits of deleting it outweigh the benefits of keeping it. Without it, I have no connection at all to some of my old friends. While I don't necessarily need to be connected to them, it's nice to see how people are doing every once in a while. LinkedIn fulfills this desire in some ways, but I don't typically connect with my "outside-of-work" friends on Link…

> While I don't necessarily need to be connected to them, it's nice to see how people are doing every once in a while. Why do you choose not to call them and ask them how they are doing? I must admit, I do not really understand this "seeing how they are doing" statement, it confuses me as to why someone would spend time on facebook to see how another one is doing, but would not make the call to ask. Maybe I'm misread…

There is a quite a large difference between the two.

Calling is an active interest. It requires specific action from the caller, and potentially interrupts the callee (which may or may not be desirable).

Facebook and other social media allows a more passive interest. The information about how the person is getting on is passed on, but the "caller" isn't needing to worry about disturbing the "callee" and the callee is not interrupted.

Sometimes we don't call because we don't care, we don't call because we don't want to impose.

This passive information forwarding replaces to an extent the part of the "village" culture that has been lost a bit as our populations have grown more and more densely packed yet the people we care to "follow" are often spreading geographically further apart. Because not everyone knows everyone, the "oh, did you hear" conversations don't spread as they once did: there are wider air gaps (filled with signal noise, i.e. the rest of that dense population) between the connected nodes in the network.

Of course social media is emulating the worst parts of that village culture grape-vine, as well as the useful parts...

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#34

I imagine a good number of people are like me and would like to close their Facebook account, but are afraid of losing that circle of friends and family that they have no other easy way of contacting. A useful feature (albeit one that Facebook would never, ever implement, as it would facilitate people leaving their platform) would be to have closure page with a final statement or forwarding address, e.g.: "I've decid…

You still have Facebook now, no? What stops you from sending your email or phone number to anyone who needs it but doesn't already have it and then canceling it?

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#35

I imagine a good number of people are like me and would like to close their Facebook account, but are afraid of losing that circle of friends and family that they have no other easy way of contacting. A useful feature (albeit one that Facebook would never, ever implement, as it would facilitate people leaving their platform) would be to have closure page with a final statement or forwarding address, e.g.: "I've decid…

You can continue to use messenger if you deactivate it. I used a Selenium script I found on here a few weeks ago to delete everything I’ve ever added to Facebook and then deactivated my account. I don’t appear if you search for me, and I doubt that deleting your entire account does anything different from deleting everything individually. It’s probably not deleted at all ever, knowing FaceBook.

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#36
Woz admits that there are benefits to FB. What he's talking about is the privacy angle. So what's the optimal usage pattern here to enjoy the benefits and still keep your privacy safe?

I think it's actually pretty straightforward with regards to FB.

First of all if you find yourself scrolling through the news feed for anything that isn't relevant to your daily life, the argument is more about mental health than privacy here to stop excessive use like that. Same for Instagram, it's highly addictive, but you'll find you don't really need it in your life.

Secondly, use an alternative messaging platform for the small group of people you tend to talk to very often and closely with. Preferably encrypted. For everyone else, it matters a lot less that people might spy on your conversations so just be careful to not talk about radical or illegal things. The benefits of FB messenger are pretty nice in terms of convenience, but if you don't like having to censor yourself get the other person to join WhatsApp, signal, or iMessage.

Thirdly, if you're using FB in the sort of community oriented way with groups and the like, continue to do so freely! There's nothing wrong with doing this on FB, it's a great platform for that and rarely is your privacy going to be violated in this way. And if you think it might, then there are alternatives like a group chat on Signal, or an anonymous/private message board. Those are more sensitive cases which surely exist but I can't think of many situations where one needs to go to these lengths.

I think the way FB and IG make money incentivizes them to violate your privacy through clicks tracking. This only works if you're on the platform like a zombie, clicking for hours on news or influencers or whatever. Maybe some of that truly is useful to you, for example my girlfriend follows a lot of people who do physical activity and exercise routines on IG. And from a privacy perspective maybe it's not even that big of a deal, but I think most people might find they don't need to waste so much of their time on these apps anyway.

So at least for the case of FB, it isn't too hard to protect your privacy the ways it really matters and still get the benefits of FB apps.

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#37
post #8

The thing that holds me to Facebook is that it's become the town square for my local community. It's where people go to discuss the community's political challenges. So many important dialogs about local issues happen on Facebook, and it's the only real way to be a part of those conversations. Things like zoning, planning, city and county budgeting, ordinances, and so on. If I leave, not only do I lose the ability to…

It seems like we are all royally screwed if policy is now being decided on and only through facebook. I have never had a FB account and will never have one. It seems extremely crazy to be required to go through a bunch of legal terms of service just to participate in government. In fact it may be illegal technically.

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#38
post #20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I don't necessarily need to be connected to them, it's nice to see how people are doing every once in a while. Why do you choose not to call them and ask them how they are doing? I must admit, I do not really understand this "seeing how they are doing" statement, it confuses me as to why someone would spend time on facebook to see how another one is doing, but would not make the call to ask. Maybe I'm misread…

Facebook posts are lightweight, asynchronous forms of communication compared to phone+voicemail.

They're also light on social interaction.

Compare:

    - Sending a post about your holiday experience to Facebook, vs.
    - Calling a friend, engaging in small-talk about your holiday experience and how they've been lately.
Sure, you won't be able to tell all your 1276 "friends" about your holidays, but the people you do talk to will actually be/become your friends. It's quantity vs quality. Personally I've decided that it's more important to me to have a few dozen really good friends in my life, instead of hundreds of people that passively take part in my life, thinking they know me, never really interacting with me in any meaningful way.

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#39
post #38
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook posts are lightweight, asynchronous forms of communication compared to phone+voicemail.

They're also light on social interaction. Compare: - Sending a post about your holiday experience to Facebook, vs. - Calling a friend, engaging in small-talk about your holiday experience and how they've been lately. Sure, you won't be able to tell all your 1276 "friends" about your holidays, but the people you do talk to will actually be/become your friends. It's quantity vs quality. Personally I've decided that it'…

    >  They're also light on social interaction.
    > Calling a friend, engaging in small-talk
Do you see the irony here? The small-talk you're describing in a Facebook post is just as socially-anemic as the small-talk you'd have over the phone.

If I want a deep conversation with somebody, I can message them on... FB messenger or something. Again, a form of communication easier to initiate than a phone call that they might not be able to pick up.

Re: Steve Wozniak Says People Should Get Off Facebook Permanently

#40
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I don't necessarily need to be connected to them, it's nice to see how people are doing every once in a while. Why do you choose not to call them and ask them how they are doing? I must admit, I do not really understand this "seeing how they are doing" statement, it confuses me as to why someone would spend time on facebook to see how another one is doing, but would not make the call to ask. Maybe I'm misread…

Actually just wrote an edit to address this but I'll repeat here - I think it's a generational thing. It's not really about keeping up with specific people - when I want to do that, I just message them like you say (side note - in my experience people in my age group don't tend to have many people's phone numbers). Basically, I grew up using Facebook, which meant I've always had these constant life updates from peopl…

It's not entirely a generational thing. I'm a lot older than you (Facebook became available to non uni students when I was 30) however, I've moved around a lot. Different countries, different US coasts, etc. As a result my friend group is spread over different continents and across different social classes—things that make picking up to go visit or reach out for a simple phone call pretty difficult.

FB has been a great way to not only maintain contact with people but to reunite with people I knew in childhood and adolescence that would have otherwise been lost to me. I don't spend much time in the app at all, but I appreciate being able to reach out or to offer emotional support (congratulations, condolences) in ways that would be impossible were I working my way through a phone book every month or so.

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