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Leaving irc.perl.org

sungo.wtf

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Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#31

Post by em-bee »

Crinus wrote: post #17
em-bee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

curious, why do you think separate irc networks is worthwhile? if they are FOSS community then they should be all the same. of course, different channels, and different people, but all with the same shared ideals...

What if the people work on FOSS but do not share the same ideals?

working on FOSS is the shared ideal. granted, this argument is aiming for the lowest denominator, but i believe that the idea that code should be FOSS licensed, for whatever reason, is already a good common ground.

moreover, those differences won't split along irc network lines. you choose the irc network based on where the project hangs out. for debian that would be oftc, which ironically was created because a number of people didn't like how freenode was run at the time. but anyone who was involved with debian had to move, regardless of where they stood on that issue or on their FOSS ideals in general.

if you work on multiple projects, you may be forced to be on multiple servers. no choice in the matter and different ideals have no influence here.

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#32

Post by em-bee »

daneel_w wrote: post #21
jpswade wrote: post #19

Why does Perl warrant its own network? Why not join freenode instead?

There already is a well-populated #perl channel on Freenode. Unfortunately it's a socially unwell place that in a way has been taken hostage by a small tight-knit group of regulars - users like MST, Grinnz and pinkmist, to name a few - who go about managing and policing the channel in not only unfriendly ways but also in very unwelcoming ways in relation to new and casual visitors. (ps. I'm a regular of the channel s…

while elsewhere i asked the same question, this is of course the downside of a large network. on a large network such issues disappear in the noise, and people would have to make a very very good case to have the channel owners dethroned. on a small network such issues can be dealt with easier (although given the reason for leaving, and other comments about irc.perl.org it appears that that place was no better)

though there is still the option of creating a new channel with a different name, and inviting people over...

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#33

Post by em-bee »

daneel_w wrote: post #21
jpswade wrote: post #19

Why does Perl warrant its own network? Why not join freenode instead?

There already is a well-populated #perl channel on Freenode. Unfortunately it's a socially unwell place that in a way has been taken hostage by a small tight-knit group of regulars - users like MST, Grinnz and pinkmist, to name a few - who go about managing and policing the channel in not only unfriendly ways but also in very unwelcoming ways in relation to new and casual visitors. (ps. I'm a regular of the channel s…

i am not sure it's appropriate to name names here. it doesn't really help the discussion. (is there a way to alert moderators (dang)) to have the names edited out, or is downvoting the only option?

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#34

Post by Crinus »

Fnoord wrote: post #30
Crinus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actual conversations are fairly rare. FWIW this is exactly my experience with pretty much every single IRC server and channel i've been the last 15 years or so. It used to be more... chatty before that, but over time people just join and idle. I wonder if the ability to have IRCs running all the time actually harmed IRC since at the past (90s mainly and perhaps very early 2000s) if someone was in a channel, they'd…

It started out as a necessity, and it isn't new. Its because of netsplits, DoS, and channel takeovers that bots existed on EFnet and IRCnet. Chanserv/Nickserv/X/W (and UnderNet/DALnet) came later on. > I wonder if the ability to have IRCs running all the time actually harmed IRC since at the past (90s mainly and perhaps very early 2000s) if someone was in a channel, they'd be up for chatting too whereas now channels…

Well it isn't just nowadays, as i said it was like that from the early 2000s - at least in my experience. But then it might just be coincidence with the IRC becoming less popular in general.

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#35

Post by daneel_w »

em-bee wrote: post #33
daneel_w wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There already is a well-populated #perl channel on Freenode. Unfortunately it's a socially unwell place that in a way has been taken hostage by a small tight-knit group of regulars - users like MST, Grinnz and pinkmist, to name a few - who go about managing and policing the channel in not only unfriendly ways but also in very unwelcoming ways in relation to new and casual visitors. (ps. I'm a regular of the channel s…

i am not sure it's appropriate to name names here. it doesn't really help the discussion. (is there a way to alert moderators (dang)) to have the names edited out, or is downvoting the only option?

These are anonymous IRC aliases, not real names. What I've mentioned isn't a secret or in any way outing or revealing; keep in mind that #perl on Freenode is a public channel, and anyone who's frequented the channel for more than a few weeks are familiar with what I described. If anything in this is sensitive it's the way newbies and "casuals" are treated there, and that it's allowed to go on without intervention from other Freenode staff.

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#36

Post by em-bee »

daneel_w wrote: post #35
em-bee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i am not sure it's appropriate to name names here. it doesn't really help the discussion. (is there a way to alert moderators (dang)) to have the names edited out, or is downvoting the only option?

These are anonymous IRC aliases, not real names. What I've mentioned isn't a secret or in any way outing or revealing; keep in mind that #perl on Freenode is a public channel, and anyone who's frequented the channel for more than a few weeks are familiar with what I described. If anything in this is sensitive it's the way newbies and "casuals" are treated there, and that it's allowed to go on without intervention fro…

they are identities, and it's not clear at all if they are anonymous or not. either way, the names don't really add to the story, so why take the risk?

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#37

Post by ether_at_cpan »

daneel_w wrote: post #21
jpswade wrote: post #19

Why does Perl warrant its own network? Why not join freenode instead?

There already is a well-populated #perl channel on Freenode. Unfortunately it's a socially unwell place that in a way has been taken hostage by a small tight-knit group of regulars - users like MST, Grinnz and pinkmist, to name a few - who go about managing and policing the channel in not only unfriendly ways but also in very unwelcoming ways in relation to new and casual visitors. (ps. I'm a regular of the channel s…

It seems to me you're exactly the type of person that sungo was talking about -- someone who wants to complain but not actually do anything to help.

You haven't said anything constructive at all. What are people doing that you find unfriendly and unwelcoming? What would you suggest they do differently? If you were one of the regulars, what would you do differently?

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#38

Post by Grinnz »

daneel_w wrote: post #21
jpswade wrote: post #19

Why does Perl warrant its own network? Why not join freenode instead?

There already is a well-populated #perl channel on Freenode. Unfortunately it's a socially unwell place that in a way has been taken hostage by a small tight-knit group of regulars - users like MST, Grinnz and pinkmist, to name a few - who go about managing and policing the channel in not only unfriendly ways but also in very unwelcoming ways in relation to new and casual visitors. (ps. I'm a regular of the channel s…

As a counterpoint, I'll extend an invitation for anyone to come see for themselves how "unfriendly" the channel is, keeping in mind that it's a two way street and nobody is being paid to put up with you.

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#39

Post by daneel_w »

ether_at_cpan wrote: post #37
daneel_w wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There already is a well-populated #perl channel on Freenode. Unfortunately it's a socially unwell place that in a way has been taken hostage by a small tight-knit group of regulars - users like MST, Grinnz and pinkmist, to name a few - who go about managing and policing the channel in not only unfriendly ways but also in very unwelcoming ways in relation to new and casual visitors. (ps. I'm a regular of the channel s…

It seems to me you're exactly the type of person that sungo was talking about -- someone who wants to complain but not actually do anything to help. You haven't said anything constructive at all. What are people doing that you find unfriendly and unwelcoming? What would you suggest they do differently? If you were one of the regulars, what would you do differently?

I am one of the regulars, since a decade now. For starters I would under no circumstance allow myself to habitually include an insult when responding to people who ask "stupid questions" out of just not knowing Perl better. I would also refrain from kicking and even banning people from the channel based on nothing else than personal differences in opinion on whatever the fleeting off-topic happens to be - a transgression I've seen played out god knows how many times over the years - and instead save that measure solely for when someone is actually breaking a network or channel rule.

Re: Leaving irc.perl.org

#40

Post by Grinnz »

vertex-four wrote: post #22
CalRobert wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to get back to IRC, but the clients seem dated for the most part. Do you have recommendations for something with a UI that feels reasonably modern?

IRCCloud is pretty modern-feeling, but is saas paid for on a subscription basis.

Seconding IRCCloud. Great mobile app with a dedicated developer. If you subscribe you can even use it as a better Slack client.
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