Live data from Hacker News

FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

washingtonpost.com

81–90 of 128 posts

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#81
post #33

Fairness of the U.S. immigration system aside, what is wrong in principle with law enforcement using driver’s license photos to uphold and enforce the law? When you drive on public roads, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. Tinted windows which obscure the driver’s face are, to the best of my knowledge, illegal in most of the U.S. I would be much more concerned if law enforcement were, for example, using t…

"When you drive on public roads, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy." I think in the age of automated large scale image recognition we need to revise the concept of privacy. I don't think we should lose our privacy completely as soon as we leave our home. And with devices like the Echo we don't even have privacy at home. There need to be restrictions on mass processing of this kind of data. Otherwise we'll…

I agree 100%.

At least we can opt-out by not buying an Echo.

People can't choose to not have a face when they want to go outside.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#82
post #50

Imagine a USA where the citizens are no longer armed, and the 1st Amendment has been cannibalized by the passing of various "hate speech" laws that only serve the interests of the current elected... and then imagine trying to redress a Government gone full Orwellian. Just sayin.

What would these 'hate speech' laws ban exactly? I'm trying to picture who exactly the implied oppressive government is ran by.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#83
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A single picture is surprisingly effective in recognizing that person in another photo. I've been playing around with a python wrapper on dlib's facial recognition [0] and it's astonishing how it can identify people from just one photo. It's not like other machine learning methods that include training a classifier or even fine tuning a classifier. It works by encoding the persons face to a 128 dimension vector and t…

These libs assume the angle is the same, i.e. square shot of the face. Cameras mounted up high are completely useless with these types of libs. Unless the tech. exists to magically rerender a front face shot so you can image how it would look from 12 - 20 feed raised up, this doesn't work.

I wonder what happens if we take a square shot of a face, then use something like the deep fakes to generate different predicted views and then feed those in to the original system.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These libs assume the angle is the same, i.e. square shot of the face. Cameras mounted up high are completely useless with these types of libs. Unless the tech. exists to magically rerender a front face shot so you can image how it would look from 12 - 20 feed raised up, this doesn't work.

I wonder what happens if we take a square shot of a face, then use something like the deep fakes to generate different predicted views and then feed those in to the original system.

You get Omphaloskepsis.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#85
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this particular development relevant? The US government still has nukes, SSN, etc etc etc. This particular reading of the 2nd Amendment seems to have been frozen in time since the drafting of the Constitution.

> How is this particular development relevant? Well God forbid it ever comes to that, but there's probably 60 Million people with guns here, and most own more than one... so basically a gun for every man, woman and child; its a formidable defense against tyranny. I mean it's not like we won in Viet Nam, to name one armed conflict that didn't go our way.

>>so basically a gun for every man, woman and child; its a formidable defense against tyranny.

No it isn't? I mean, I know it's a very common conservative fantasy, but if the federal government comes after you, they are doing so with tanks and helicopters, and your puny guns won't change the outcome. Vietnam is not a good analogy. Your average American is dumb, fat and undisciplined. The Viet Cong were none of those things.

This is aside from the fact that an armed populace only encourages the government's law enforcement agencies to arm themselves more, and increases tensions in every encounter because the LEO has to assume the target is armed.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#86
post #64
post #4

What did you think was going to happen? Did you speak out against it when it was proposed? How would they NOT use this data available to them? https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-technology/national-id/r...

And this is why the morning of the Snowden leaks will always be a fond memory for me. Anybody with experience in the kinetic aspects of the USG, who also had a solid understanding of what is technologically feasible, knew about that mass surveillance was a certainty. The Department of State's process for designating terrorist organizations is instructive here: groups are evaluated on both disposition and capability.…

It's good that people have some knowledge that the spying is happening now, but what has really changed?

Everyone is still being spied upon, only now people seem to have a sense of inevitability about it.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#87
post #50

Imagine a USA where the citizens are no longer armed, and the 1st Amendment has been cannibalized by the passing of various "hate speech" laws that only serve the interests of the current elected... and then imagine trying to redress a Government gone full Orwellian. Just sayin.

What would these 'hate speech' laws ban exactly? I'm trying to picture who exactly the implied oppressive government is ran by.

> What would these 'hate speech' laws ban exactly?

Is it not authoritarianism if it's Our Guys?

You can classify anything as hate speech. Propose a restrictive immigration policy? That's hate speech against immigrant populations, an attack on their economic opportunity. Propose a permissive immigration policy? Hate speech against the native population, an attack on their cultural survival.

Anything that affects anyone can be construed as being intolerant of anyone it negatively affects. Since all significant policies affect people, anything your opponents say can be classified as hate speech by an authoritarian who doesn't like them.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#88
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this particular development relevant? Well God forbid it ever comes to that, but there's probably 60 Million people with guns here, and most own more than one... so basically a gun for every man, woman and child; its a formidable defense against tyranny. I mean it's not like we won in Viet Nam, to name one armed conflict that didn't go our way.

>>so basically a gun for every man, woman and child; its a formidable defense against tyranny. No it isn't? I mean, I know it's a very common conservative fantasy, but if the federal government comes after you, they are doing so with tanks and helicopters, and your puny guns won't change the outcome. Vietnam is not a good analogy. Your average American is dumb, fat and undisciplined. The Viet Cong were none of those…

> but if the federal government comes after you, they are doing so with tanks and helicopters, and your puny guns won't change the outcome. Vietnam is not a good analogy. Your average American is dumb, fat and undisciplined. The Viet Cong were none of those things.

Because our tanks and helicopters have done so well at suppressing a bunch of afghani sheepherders, right? I don't think you're really qualified to evaluate the ability of the US's rural population to adapt to guerrilla warfare.

In all seriousness, it's easy to use superior weaponry to subjugate a populace... if one of the win conditions is killing everyone in the population to be subjugated. As soon as you have to care about things like "mass killings" or "civilian casualties" or "are you sure this isn't genocide" that gets a lot harder. And I'm relatively sure that the people who make up the US military would care, particularly when it's people they identify with that they're exterminating.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#89
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this particular development relevant? Well God forbid it ever comes to that, but there's probably 60 Million people with guns here, and most own more than one... so basically a gun for every man, woman and child; its a formidable defense against tyranny. I mean it's not like we won in Viet Nam, to name one armed conflict that didn't go our way.

>>so basically a gun for every man, woman and child; its a formidable defense against tyranny. No it isn't? I mean, I know it's a very common conservative fantasy, but if the federal government comes after you, they are doing so with tanks and helicopters, and your puny guns won't change the outcome. Vietnam is not a good analogy. Your average American is dumb, fat and undisciplined. The Viet Cong were none of those…

> if the federal government comes after you, they are doing so with tanks and helicopters

What is that supposed to do against the domestic population? Would they use their tanks and planes to blow up their own bridges and cities? Those are weapons used to claim territory from other governments. They're not very useful in a guerilla war where you don't even know who the enemy is.

> Vietnam is not a good analogy. Your average American is dumb, fat and undisciplined. The Viet Cong were none of those things.

Where does that leave the American government if that's the population they draw their soldiers and law enforcement from and they're each only trained for a couple of months? What do you do when half your new recruits sign up with the intent to turn against you as soon as you've trained them and provided them with weapons and equipment?

Fighting a civil war is hard. The US government is well aware of that, hence the bread and circuses.

> This is aside from the fact that an armed populace only encourages the government's law enforcement agencies to arm themselves more, and increases tensions in every encounter because the LEO has to assume the target is armed.

The solution to which is to expressly prohibit them from doing so. Random sheriffs have zero need for military tanks and riot gear and they shouldn't even be allowed to touch it. You don't need a SWAT team to serve a warrant on a check forger. You don't need a SWAT team at all, because anything it could legitimately be used for is the rightful role of the national guard.

Just because the domestic population is armed doesn't mean even 1% of them would shoot a police officer. And the people who would, tend to be the people who acquire firearms unlawfully regardless.

If the problem is that violent drug dealers have illegally-obtained guns, you can't solve that by taking legally-obtained guns away from peaceful hill billies and women who just want to feel safe walking home at night.

Re: FBI, ICE using state driver’s license photos for facial-recognition searches

#90
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this particular development relevant? Well God forbid it ever comes to that, but there's probably 60 Million people with guns here, and most own more than one... so basically a gun for every man, woman and child; its a formidable defense against tyranny. I mean it's not like we won in Viet Nam, to name one armed conflict that didn't go our way.

>>so basically a gun for every man, woman and child; its a formidable defense against tyranny. No it isn't? I mean, I know it's a very common conservative fantasy, but if the federal government comes after you, they are doing so with tanks and helicopters, and your puny guns won't change the outcome. Vietnam is not a good analogy. Your average American is dumb, fat and undisciplined. The Viet Cong were none of those…

> Your average American is dumb, fat and undisciplined.

Hmmm... and yet we rule the World. Go figure ;)

Post reply on HN