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In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

latimes.com

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Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#21

Post by camgunz »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #14

Hong Kong reminds me a lot of Ukraine. They both want to be 'modern', 'western' and 'special', rejecting the 'backwards' ways of their imperial leaders. Unfortunately, their economic success was/is wholly dependant on said leaders, and they're shooting themselves in the foot by trying to break away. No one in the west truly gives a shit about HK or Ukraine. We give them lip-service, but no one will go to war over it.…

Absolutely. Every western country should be supporting HK to the fullest right now. This is nothing short of an attack on fundamental human freedoms, and the west should be apopleptic. I'm a westerner, these values are extremely important to me, and I'm deeply embarrassed that we can't get our shit together enough to do anything about this.

Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#22

Post by camgunz »

valesco wrote: post #18
Mikeb85 wrote: post #14

Hong Kong reminds me a lot of Ukraine. They both want to be 'modern', 'western' and 'special', rejecting the 'backwards' ways of their imperial leaders. Unfortunately, their economic success was/is wholly dependant on said leaders, and they're shooting themselves in the foot by trying to break away. No one in the west truly gives a shit about HK or Ukraine. We give them lip-service, but no one will go to war over it.…

There are certainly people who prefer living in a high GDP country in which they can be 'disappeared' one night along with their family, but I didn't expect to see them on HN.

I don't think that's exactly what op is getting at. Basically they're saying the west will give token support to HK and hang them out to dry later. They're saying the options aren't freedom vs. tyranny, but rather high vs. low GDP police state.

Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#23

Post by st1ck »

bkohlmann wrote: post #3

I’ve been thinking about this man all night. He, alone among his peers, took an action with foreseeable and negative personal consequences. Whether spontaneous or planned, he made a choice that may well define the rest of his life, for good or ill. I took the time to reflect on my own weekend, celebrating America’s independence against different totalitarian rule. I spent it with family, safe, free, and relaxed. I co…

I have some doubts that British colonial rule was anything comparable to Nazi Germany, USSR or even China nowadays.

Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#24

Post by _cs2017_ »

spectramax wrote: post #16

What praise do I give to this oppression (China's influence over HK) where people, even a single person out of many thousands, are terrified of revealing their identity in a protest? It seems unpopular on HN, but there is something that westerners are missing that makes the phrase "Boycott China" sound racist, ignorant and preposterous. Why is it so "wrong" to properly, sternly and unapologetically criticizing China?…

The hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters had no masks. The small group who vandalized the Legislative Council wore masks because they knew they were breaking HK laws. Indeed, they would be arrested and charged for such actions in any country, including colonial HK, UK, or US.

While there are plenty of reasons you may dislike the behavior of the Chinese government, I don't think this is one of them.

On another note, I'm not sure why you would admire one of the very few violent extremists who embarrassed the otherwise peaceful HK democracy movement. Just because an extremist is willing to risk jail sentence by revealing his face, he becomes a hero?

Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#25

Post by qnsi »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #14

Hong Kong reminds me a lot of Ukraine. They both want to be 'modern', 'western' and 'special', rejecting the 'backwards' ways of their imperial leaders. Unfortunately, their economic success was/is wholly dependant on said leaders, and they're shooting themselves in the foot by trying to break away. No one in the west truly gives a shit about HK or Ukraine. We give them lip-service, but no one will go to war over it.…

>Ukraine which, without Russia as a partner, is now one of the poorest countries in Europe with a GDP per capita half that of Belarus', and a quarter of Russia's.

It was like this before the war. This was a big chance for Ukraine, to integrate with EU and trade with EU mainly not with Russia. Sadly Russian aggression changed that

Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#26

Post by spectramax »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #24
spectramax wrote: post #16

What praise do I give to this oppression (China's influence over HK) where people, even a single person out of many thousands, are terrified of revealing their identity in a protest? It seems unpopular on HN, but there is something that westerners are missing that makes the phrase "Boycott China" sound racist, ignorant and preposterous. Why is it so "wrong" to properly, sternly and unapologetically criticizing China?…

The hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters had no masks. The small group who vandalized the Legislative Council wore masks because they knew they were breaking HK laws. Indeed, they would be arrested and charged for such actions in any country, including colonial HK, UK, or US. While there are plenty of reasons you may dislike the behavior of the Chinese government, I don't think this is one of them. On another…

Accordingly to this logic, Gandhi was an extremist for breaking British law.

Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#28

Post by Mikeb85 »

qnsi wrote: post #25
Mikeb85 wrote: post #14

Hong Kong reminds me a lot of Ukraine. They both want to be 'modern', 'western' and 'special', rejecting the 'backwards' ways of their imperial leaders. Unfortunately, their economic success was/is wholly dependant on said leaders, and they're shooting themselves in the foot by trying to break away. No one in the west truly gives a shit about HK or Ukraine. We give them lip-service, but no one will go to war over it.…

>Ukraine which, without Russia as a partner, is now one of the poorest countries in Europe with a GDP per capita half that of Belarus', and a quarter of Russia's. It was like this before the war. This was a big chance for Ukraine, to integrate with EU and trade with EU mainly not with Russia. Sadly Russian aggression changed that

The EU was never going to accept Ukraine as a member and never will, and they did reduce trade restrictions, but EU states don't want Ukrainian products. EU farmers already produce too much food, EU states won't eat Ukrainian foodstuffs since Slavic tastes are so different. The EU also doesn't want any more workers immigrating to richer states.

Also, Ukraine tried rapprochement with the EU after the Orange Revolution, but again, the west only wanted to use them to get at Russia, not to see them successful.

As for Ukraine's economic success, it's always been tied to Russia, and the successive revolutions have not been good for it. That's why every election after failed Euro-optimist governments can't deliver, Ukraine elects a pragmatic President.

Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#29

Post by Mikeb85 »

camgunz wrote: post #22
valesco wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly people who prefer living in a high GDP country in which they can be 'disappeared' one night along with their family, but I didn't expect to see them on HN.

I don't think that's exactly what op is getting at. Basically they're saying the west will give token support to HK and hang them out to dry later. They're saying the options aren't freedom vs. tyranny, but rather high vs. low GDP police state.

Exactly. Hong Kong's only real choices are to be an exemplary model of the 'two systems one country' model and wait for China to change, or to go against the grain and get crushed. Becoming a 'free', 'western' country is impossible.

Re: In Hong Kong, one protester pulls off his mask and defines a movement

#30

Post by chowyuncat »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #24
spectramax wrote: post #16

What praise do I give to this oppression (China's influence over HK) where people, even a single person out of many thousands, are terrified of revealing their identity in a protest? It seems unpopular on HN, but there is something that westerners are missing that makes the phrase "Boycott China" sound racist, ignorant and preposterous. Why is it so "wrong" to properly, sternly and unapologetically criticizing China?…

The hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters had no masks. The small group who vandalized the Legislative Council wore masks because they knew they were breaking HK laws. Indeed, they would be arrested and charged for such actions in any country, including colonial HK, UK, or US. While there are plenty of reasons you may dislike the behavior of the Chinese government, I don't think this is one of them. On another…

Jail, torture, and death followed by organ extraction.
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