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The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

effectiviology.com

21–30 of 152 posts

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#21
Modern Life is so complex.

And in many situations , telling whether they're zero sum, is uncertain, and hard. Look at the debates here for example.

So people default to what they already generally know.

They know that society is very competitive. The job market is very competitive. The mating market is very competitive. Zero sum games are everywhere.

So it's no wonder they have this cognitive bias.

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#22
post #6

This will be controversial, but this is true everytime there is a pitchfork-inducing "the rich got richer in 20XX" thread. But it's not that the rich stole from the poor in order to become richer (though undoubtedly people will argue this). If I stick a million dollars in an index fund and passively get richer, am I stealing from the poor? Wealth is not zero sum, yet we seem to treat it like it is (in order for poor…

Think about Trump tax-cuts, who benefited most, the big corporations. That meant they made more profit which meant their stock price went up. Which meant people who owned stock got richer, and if you owned a lot of stock much richer. Whereas poor people who can't afford to put money aside for stock-investing did not get any less poor and they did not get tax-breaks or government support-programs either. They didn't get better infra-structure so travel for them would be cheaper and food fresher etc.

Point is it does not matter if rich got richer. What matters is the tax-system that (at least under Trump) favors the rich and produces growing inequality.

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#23

> people tend to assume that if a product is superior in one dimension then it must be inferior in other dimensions. Assuming price is one of the dimensions, this is generally a true statement. Otherwise we'd have a bunch of best-in-class products that are cheaper than inferior competitors. This can occur for products sold at massive scale and with large tooling costs. This dynamic enables the producers of premium pr…

Would this be dissimilar to undercutting a competitor? For example Ryzen 3rd gen chips seem to out perform, and undercut the price, of Intel chips with a similar feature set. Maybe brand is a dimension?

Brand is certainly a dimension in some cases (see: Apple products) but it's inconsistent per consumer.

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#24
One thing that grinds my gears is how the article is shoehorning all these examples of zero-sum bias into a precisely zero-sum situation. It doesn't actually have to be zero-sum for that "bias" to become rational. For example, prisoner's dilemma (which would actually better describe most of the situations put forth in the article).

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#25
post #15

A common one on HN is cryptocurrency energy use. If crypto didn't exist that energy would have been "wasted" on something else.

There's a huge hole in the ground a 100 or so miles from me and several trains a day rolling up the valley that would disagree with you.

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#26

> people tend to assume that if a product is superior in one dimension then it must be inferior in other dimensions. Assuming price is one of the dimensions, this is generally a true statement. Otherwise we'd have a bunch of best-in-class products that are cheaper than inferior competitors. This can occur for products sold at massive scale and with large tooling costs. This dynamic enables the producers of premium pr…

Would this be dissimilar to undercutting a competitor? For example Ryzen 3rd gen chips seem to out perform, and undercut the price, of Intel chips with a similar feature set. Maybe brand is a dimension?

Sometimes this happens for a period of time, but in the medium- or long-run, the manufacturer of the superior product will raise prices. Undercutting is just a way of getting attention in the short-term.

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#27
post #6

This will be controversial, but this is true everytime there is a pitchfork-inducing "the rich got richer in 20XX" thread. But it's not that the rich stole from the poor in order to become richer (though undoubtedly people will argue this). If I stick a million dollars in an index fund and passively get richer, am I stealing from the poor? Wealth is not zero sum, yet we seem to treat it like it is (in order for poor…

What people take issue with is not necessarily one individual's action, but the system which allows rich people to get richer without benefiting the middle/working class. Cost of education, housing and health care keeps rising in America but wages didn't.

I would say it's a combination of zero sum and non-zero sum. If we can allocate resources better, both the poor and the rich can get richer by producing more. But at the same time how profits are distributed is a zero sum game.

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#28
post #6

This will be controversial, but this is true everytime there is a pitchfork-inducing "the rich got richer in 20XX" thread. But it's not that the rich stole from the poor in order to become richer (though undoubtedly people will argue this). If I stick a million dollars in an index fund and passively get richer, am I stealing from the poor? Wealth is not zero sum, yet we seem to treat it like it is (in order for poor…

It's not that clear that the rich in general don't play a zero sum game.

But anyways, that's not how people build their model of fairness.

They look at their boss, making much money,often of their good work, while giving them the bare minimum he could get away with.

They look at bezos treating employees like cattle, and not paying taxes.

They look at their landlord, "killing them" with rent. And let's not talk about buying a house.

They look at rich guys, getting many women easily. While they struggle.

Should they really feel the rich don't play a zero sum game?

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#29
post #6

This will be controversial, but this is true everytime there is a pitchfork-inducing "the rich got richer in 20XX" thread. But it's not that the rich stole from the poor in order to become richer (though undoubtedly people will argue this). If I stick a million dollars in an index fund and passively get richer, am I stealing from the poor? Wealth is not zero sum, yet we seem to treat it like it is (in order for poor…

> Wealth is not zero sum But what relative wealth buys - a safer, more comfortable position in society - definitely is.

I don't think that is quite right. Consider the difference between a society with extremely uneven wealth distribution, such that only a tiny percentage felt safe an comfortable. It's easy to imagine a more even wealth distribution changing that for a large percentage of people.

There is a tautological zero-sum ordering in relative wealth, but it's not clear that correlates to anything meaningful to vast majority of people.

Re: The Zero-Sum Bias: When people think that everything is a competition

#30
post #6

This will be controversial, but this is true everytime there is a pitchfork-inducing "the rich got richer in 20XX" thread. But it's not that the rich stole from the poor in order to become richer (though undoubtedly people will argue this). If I stick a million dollars in an index fund and passively get richer, am I stealing from the poor? Wealth is not zero sum, yet we seem to treat it like it is (in order for poor…

> Wealth is not zero sum But what relative wealth buys - a safer, more comfortable position in society - definitely is.

I don't think it's so clear cut. Maybe relative poverty can only be shifted around, but if you reduce absolute poverty that seems pretty clearly positive-sum.
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