Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#61

Post by Townley » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 4:12 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #34

The author compares Greenland to Puerto Rico, seeming to make the assumption that if somebody made a good offer, America would happily sell Puerto Rico. Can any other Americans speak to the truth of this? It seems absurd to me that a country would happily sell off a territory and make a whole bunch of citizens non-citizens just for the financial benefit. Are Puerto Ricans not Americans? Do americans really view Puert…

Speaking for myself (as an American), I’d find this problematic without a referendum of support from Puerto Rico.

Self-determination is important, and selling land with an entire culture and population based solely on a balance sheet seems shameful. That said, if the deal were mutually beneficial for Puerto Rico and the US (“We’ll invest heavily enough in PR to make them interested in approving the deal in a public referendum”) that would be fine.

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#62

Post by mongol » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 4:25 AM UTC

Good for Denmark. A large arctic territory will be great to have once oil drilling becomes viable in the region. I have no idea what reserves can be found but that is the kind of thing that makes overseas territories valuable.

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#63

Post by m3at » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 4:50 AM UTC

anbop wrote: post #11

National territory has a psychological and strategic value that cannot be bought and sold. Countries have gone to war over infinitesimally tiny pieces of land (Gaza, Falklands, Northern Ireland)... we do not need to look to a crystal ball to see why Denmark holds onto a gigantic landmass like Greenland.

Landmass is sometimes valued much lower than we might expect. In the eighteen century, France perceived Guadeloupe (an island in the carribean) as more valuable than Canada [1] and chose to keep the former over the later. Voltaire is often quoted to have dismissed Canada as "Quelques arpents de neige" (a few acres of snow).

Granted, France lost a war and had limited saying in what to keep, but the difference in perceived value is interesting.

[1] https://utpjournals.press/doi/10.3138/chr.91.4.637

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#64

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

technothrasher wrote: post #46

notatoad wrote: post #34

The author compares Greenland to Puerto Rico, seeming to make the assumption that if somebody made a good offer, America would happily sell Puerto Rico. Can any other Americans speak to the truth of this? It seems absurd to me that a country would happily sell off a territory and make a whole bunch of citizens non-citizens just for the financial benefit. Are Puerto Ricans not Americans? Do americans really view Puert…

> Are Puerto Ricans not Americans? Well... sort of? The short answer is yes, of course they are. But I don't think they quite view themselves as the same as other US citizens exactly. Both US and Puerto Rican courts have repeatedly recognized Puerto Rican citizenship as distinct from US Citizenship, as does the EU. Spain, for an example, allows Puerto Rican citizens to become Spanish citizens after living in Spain on…

[deleted]

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#65

Post by Tepix » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 5:04 AM UTC

Moru wrote: post #35

anbop wrote: post #11

National territory has a psychological and strategic value that cannot be bought and sold. Countries have gone to war over infinitesimally tiny pieces of land (Gaza, Falklands, Northern Ireland)... we do not need to look to a crystal ball to see why Denmark holds onto a gigantic landmass like Greenland.

> Greenland is believed by some geologists to have some of the world’s largest remaining oil resources. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_exploration_in_the...

Good thing Denmark owns it then. Less likely to exploit it

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#66

Post by User23 » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

brighter2morrow wrote: post #52

notatoad wrote: post #34

The author compares Greenland to Puerto Rico, seeming to make the assumption that if somebody made a good offer, America would happily sell Puerto Rico. Can any other Americans speak to the truth of this? It seems absurd to me that a country would happily sell off a territory and make a whole bunch of citizens non-citizens just for the financial benefit. Are Puerto Ricans not Americans? Do americans really view Puert…

A lot of Americans would offer money for someone to take Puerto Rico off out hands.

On a tangential note, moving to Puerto Rico is one of the better ways for a US citizen who doesn't want to renounce to lawfully avoid federal capital gains taxes. Domiciling on a tropical island for a year to avoid 15% can be pretty attractive even for relatively modest equity gains.

Edit: Puerto Rico Act 22[1] is the law in question.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_22_of_2012

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#67

Post by User23 » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 5:09 AM UTC

stormbrew wrote: post #47

cobbzilla wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry to be the classic HN “but wait” guy, but wait: technically isn’t Greenland in America? The tectonic plate separating North America from Europe goes right through Iceland (the only place the Mid-Atlantic ridge is above water), making Iceland a “country on two continents”. If a European country can count off-continent lands in its “biggest country” argument, don’t all overseas territories get that considerati…

Commonwealth countries that have a monarch (which is not all of them) are under different crowns held by the same person. It's a somewhat technical distinction, but it does legally matter. She is the queen of Canada and the queen of the UK, not the queen of Canada and the UK.

Interestingly, and somewhat germane to the article, Denmark was once in a similar situation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#68

Post by Something1234 » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 5:14 AM UTC

User23 wrote: post #66

brighter2morrow wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Americans would offer money for someone to take Puerto Rico off out hands.

On a tangential note, moving to Puerto Rico is one of the better ways for a US citizen who doesn't want to renounce to lawfully avoid federal capital gains taxes. Domiciling on a tropical island for a year to avoid 15% can be pretty attractive even for relatively modest equity gains. Edit: Puerto Rico Act 22[1] is the law in question. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_22_of_2012

How so? What law?

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#69

Post by wolco » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 5:25 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #55

This got me thinking about "things that were once okay but today are totally unpalatable." In this case, selling land occupied by citizens. Could you imagine if there was a decision to sell part of Michigan that included Detroit to Canada?

Canada would gladly take them in but can we get all of northern Michigan?

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#70

Post by xchaotic » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 5:26 AM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #32

elliotec wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Greenland is 836,300 mi², while Denmark is 16,577 mi². Imagine the effects of climate change in 200+ years - Greenland could be VERY valuable and important then.

Why sell it?

agreed. A long term lease would be acceptable to both sides, but at this point there's no such offer as US already has a presence there, much cheaper.