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Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

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Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#151
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there people investing so much money on these things, filling up the space, just for some stupid trading. Why is humanity doing this ??

"just for some stupid trading" is one of the underlying forces beneath the success of all modern economies. Without it almost everything you buy would be more expensive.

Being able to trade milliseconds faster is about as pure zero-sum as you can get. The comparison isn't versus having no stock markets at all.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#152
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just for some stupid trading" is one of the underlying forces beneath the success of all modern economies. Without it almost everything you buy would be more expensive.

Are you considering “having cheaper stuff” actually progress in terms of humanity ?

Sure, why not? Cheaper stuff, from another angle, means you can work fewer hours to achieve the same lifestyle. And that's pretty good!

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#153

At what point should we start worrying about Kessler Syndrome? > The Kessler syndrome (also called the Kessler effect,[1][2] collisional cascading or ablation cascade), proposed by the NASA scientist Donald J. Kessler in 1978, is a scenario in which the density of objects in low Earth orbit (LEO) is high enough that collisions between objects could cause a cascade in which each collision generates space debris that i…

One obvious solution is to put them in an orbit low enough that they'll fall back within a few years.

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Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#154
post #106
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just for some stupid trading" is one of the underlying forces beneath the success of all modern economies. Without it almost everything you buy would be more expensive.

They referred to HFT only - how does it contribute to "success" of modern economies? It just sucks out value due to stock market implementation.

That argument can apply to any improvement in efficiency of a process.

Admittedly any contribution of HFT to economic success (other than that of the traders themselves, of course) is probably fairly marginal, but more efficient markets are probably a good thing.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#155
post #105

Iridium has global coverage (you can make phone calls from the South Pole) but isn't LEO so there's a latency issue. Starlink is LEO and will have faster rates & lower latency, but won't have global coverage since the orbits don't go over the poles (sorry, Amundsen-Scott!). What about the proposed Amazon (Blue Origin?) system?

Iridium is definitely LEO.

Iridium orbits are ~780km (485 mi). Starlink lower tier orbits are ~340km (210 mi).

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#156
post #78

So what it's gonna be like - latency and bandwidth?

For latency at LEO, we're looking at below 50ms, going as low as 20ms. For bandwidth, it obviously depends on load and usage. SpaceX's satellites each can handle 1 Tbps, so it comes down to how they distribute and price it. At 100Mbps and 3000 satellites, that's roughly 10 million users. Obviously not all users will be using that much data simultaneously.

You underestimate the hunger. It's a new toy to play with for billions of people. Pretty much 3k satellites at 1TB/s each is equivalent of a bucket of water for a stadium full of people. And they plan to give this access for free. It will overload their network and realize they will need 3 million satellites instead, at least.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#157
post #116

Anyone wanna offer me their hypothesis on what Amazon and other tech companies gain from offering internet to people who probably aren't valuable consumers?

Real engineering made a video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs I recommend watching. The channel does really good explanations.

I quite liked that video. It was indeed worth watching.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#158
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because HFT firms can pay for a standard StarLink and get the same results. There are few HFT customers and you have to offer them something that can't get from your consumer service if you want them to pay commensurate to the value provided. Your other points have nothing to do with my HFT specific comment.

"standard StarLink"? StarLink doesn't exist yet, and when it does, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that two satellite constellation providers could serve the HFT market and both be profitable.

They could just charge extra for the “last ms”. So add a ms of latency for the standard plan, and remove it for the HFT plan.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#159
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, there are competitors. Starlink (or any other proposed LEO constellation) offers a fundamentally better product as a result of low latency (ballpark 640ms vs 20ms). Which they get as a result of being in low earth orbit instead of geosynchronous orbit. Starlinks costs per unit bandwidth are almost certainly far lower, meaning the ability to out compete on price. I don't see the existing constellations remaining…

> Starlinks costs per unit bandwidth are almost certainly far lower Interesting, how do you know that?

It's not true. LEO systems are far more CAPEX intensive than GEO, and neither Starlink, Oneweb, Telesat, or Kuiper will be cheaper than Viasat-3 and will not be able to compete in terms of cost per Gbps.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#160
post #93
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of Starlink's planned markets is global high frequency trading. The latency of radio and laser transmission in atmosphere and space is much lower than undersea fiber optic cables. (Light moves significantly slower through glass than through air.) Even with the longer distance and retransmission they stand a good chance of being lower latency across oceans than undersea cables.

This is not true as far as I can tell. HFT does not appear to be part of spacex’s strategy at all.

Specially now that the satellites have no crosslinks.
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