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Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

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Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#131

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

greglindahl wrote: post #120
thinkling wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once they have their own satellite-based cell network, they can take another stab at launching a mobile phone. The Amazon Fire2 phone will be able to use this proprietary network. Amazon could then go for entry into mobile markets by selling phones with data service included free, trying to become a third major mobile platform. Alternately, Amazon is developing their Alexa-fronted Internet-of-Things (home automation,…

Imagine how many customers will jump at the chance to carry a pizza box-sized antenna for a cellphone!

Honestly, if I could get home wifi speeds in my car, I would.

I hate watching Netflix and having pauses as I drive on the highway.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#132

Post by Robotbeat »

Scaevolus wrote: post #61
new_realist wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about debris from LEO collisions moving into higher orbits?

A single impact can't put something into a higher circular orbit-- it can create an elliptical orbit with a higher apogee (max distance), but the correspondingly nearer perigee (closest approach) means that it experiences more atmospheric drag and falls out of orbit faster.

I thought so too, but apparently this is not universally true. Some of the debris can be put in an orbit with a longer lifetime than the original satellite. I got into a long twitter argument with experts in this field, and I was proven false: some of the debris can have longer orbital lifetime and go to higher orbit.

EDIT: Here: https://twitter.com/SpaceJosh/status/1119721780254371840

Always embarrassing to make a fool of myself on the Internet, but losing an argument IS a very effective way of learning.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#133

Post by syedkarim »

chiph wrote: post #105

Iridium has global coverage (you can make phone calls from the South Pole) but isn't LEO so there's a latency issue. Starlink is LEO and will have faster rates & lower latency, but won't have global coverage since the orbits don't go over the poles (sorry, Amundsen-Scott!). What about the proposed Amazon (Blue Origin?) system?

Iridium is definitely LEO.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#134

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #35
gamegoblin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is anything like SpaceX's constellation, the plan is that the orbits will naturally decay in < 10 years and they will burn up in the atmosphere upon re-entry.

IMHO, it would be nice if the decay orbit for each satellite were tracked accurately by Amazon and published beforehand. If these satellites truly do burn up completely -- great. But if they don't it would be great to hold Amazon accountable for any problems and for waste cleanup.

> accountable for any problems and for waste cleanup

These are companies, not people... $10 buck says if one of these things hits your roof, Amazon will just give you a $100 gift card to Amazon.com

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#135

Post by fastball »

eloff wrote: post #102
fastball wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that be hard to monetize? You literally just charge people for internet access. * HFT firms will pay for it if the latency is lower * Online gamers that play with other people around the globe would also probably be willing to pay to get their ping down. * Maybe they could have a LEO CDN. * People like me who travel a lot would be willing to pay for it. It would be especially sweet if I could somehow ditch…

Because HFT firms can pay for a standard StarLink and get the same results. There are few HFT customers and you have to offer them something that can't get from your consumer service if you want them to pay commensurate to the value provided. Your other points have nothing to do with my HFT specific comment.

"standard StarLink"?

StarLink doesn't exist yet, and when it does, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that two satellite constellation providers could serve the HFT market and both be profitable.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#136

Post by H8crilA »

gpm wrote: post #118
H8crilA wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and there's already a lot of providers of satellite internet. But, Starlink has not published their pricing, so it's unclear how much of the market will they capture.

Sure, there are competitors. Starlink (or any other proposed LEO constellation) offers a fundamentally better product as a result of low latency (ballpark 640ms vs 20ms). Which they get as a result of being in low earth orbit instead of geosynchronous orbit. Starlinks costs per unit bandwidth are almost certainly far lower, meaning the ability to out compete on price. I don't see the existing constellations remaining…

> Starlinks costs per unit bandwidth are almost certainly far lower

Interesting, how do you know that?

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#137

Post by syedkarim »

jonplackett wrote: post #45
penagwin wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not a problem if they are maintained in the way the SpaceX sats are going to be. Aka - Not a problem if they are well thought out, well planned, and maintained. Are there international agreements that specify this is the case? Just curious, real question.

Yeah ditto. And are there agreements to stop them interfering with each other? I get that space is really really big but surely there needs to be a way to coordinate so much stuff up there.

The ITU is the international body that assists with coordination among nations and their satellite systems.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#138

Post by noir_lord »

davidlumley wrote: post #74
kodz4 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get specific about the concern, otherwise it's easy to get afraid about everything. Govt's hardly own telecom infra, it's all in private hands. And when orgs get too big for their boots, things like this happen- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System

> Get specific about the concern, otherwise it's easy to get afraid about everything. There are many reasons to be afraid about a private corporation from a country with little regulation providing a utility to areas with no other choice. If Amazon was sponsoring this, that's one thing, but them owning the network raises red flags for me surrounding: 1) Privacy 2) The potential for anti competitive practices 3) Quali…

Same thing happened in the UK with BT.

Usual privatise the profits, socialise the costs.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#139

Post by ghobs91 »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #9

Anyone wanna offer me their hypothesis on what Amazon and other tech companies gain from offering internet to people who probably aren't valuable consumers?

They're playing the (somewhat) long game. While the portion of the world that doesn't internet access right now is generally poor, adding an internet connection to that populace will drastically speed up their development. This then gives Amazon new customers.

Their options are either wait around for 3rd world governments to build the infrastructure to get them those customers, or do it themselves faster.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#140

Post by mratzloff »

throw0101a wrote: post #10

At what point should we start worrying about Kessler Syndrome? > The Kessler syndrome (also called the Kessler effect,[1][2] collisional cascading or ablation cascade), proposed by the NASA scientist Donald J. Kessler in 1978, is a scenario in which the density of objects in low Earth orbit (LEO) is high enough that collisions between objects could cause a cascade in which each collision generates space debris that i…

The bigger issue is all these satellites outnumbering the total number stars visible from Earth. It has astronomers worried.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-a...

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