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Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

gwern.net

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Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#21

Post by Sharlin »

madaxe_again wrote: post #10

I think, in hindsight, it will turn out to have been an exceptionally good call to retain Greenland. They have an interesting setup - there is no land ownership other than by the state, and you can only get permission to build by winning a lottery. There are minor exceptions for building small hunting cabins in the fjords, but this is negligible. The reason is to prevent private ownership from hindering possible oppo…

One interesting thing about Greenland is that climate change is making it increasingly rich in a resource that’s rapidly getting scarce elsewhere on the planet: sand. To be precise, the sort of sand that’s useful for making concrete and asphalt.

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#22

Post by jopsen »

anbop wrote: post #11

National territory has a psychological and strategic value that cannot be bought and sold. Countries have gone to war over infinitesimally tiny pieces of land (Gaza, Falklands, Northern Ireland)... we do not need to look to a crystal ball to see why Denmark holds onto a gigantic landmass like Greenland.

Denmark did sell the Virgin islands to the US in 1917, so it's not unheard of.

I think that back in the day, Denmark was keen to have a US base on Danish soil, hehe :) (Also selling land and citizens probably became tabu, as is today)

I would suspect that later it became the reminder of former glory...

But in future, we'll likely have to give it up, if it ever becomes profitable on it's own.

(Unless, Greenland somehow becomes profitable by using it's ties to Denmark, for trade, etc..)

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#23

Post by scythe »

jessaustin wrote: post #9

Denmark's people and (especially) leaders value what Greenland represents in terms of geopolitics. Greenland is a seat at the table for the Danes. Without it, they'd be like Luxembourg. With it, they're like Norway. This isn't mysterious.

Indeed. Fretting over the possibility that Greenland is easily taken is forgetting that it still must be taken. Denmark is stitched in to various alliances and treaties, and anyone who would take what Denmark has must withstand the ire of its partners. After all, what is power, but a lot of memories of agreeable conversations and the meaning we attach to ink stains on paper?

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#24

Post by Sharlin »

anbop wrote: post #11

National territory has a psychological and strategic value that cannot be bought and sold. Countries have gone to war over infinitesimally tiny pieces of land (Gaza, Falklands, Northern Ireland)... we do not need to look to a crystal ball to see why Denmark holds onto a gigantic landmass like Greenland.

Yeah. As much as I respect gwern, I think here they’re underestimating the importance of the human aspects like national pride.

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#25

Post by jopsen »

Sharlin wrote: post #24
anbop wrote: post #11

National territory has a psychological and strategic value that cannot be bought and sold. Countries have gone to war over infinitesimally tiny pieces of land (Gaza, Falklands, Northern Ireland)... we do not need to look to a crystal ball to see why Denmark holds onto a gigantic landmass like Greenland.

Yeah. As much as I respect gwern, I think here they’re underestimating the importance of the human aspects like national pride.

Especially following WWII, in which Denmark offered no resistance.

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#26

Post by leke »

Mizza wrote: post #13

Wild idea: I think we should turn Greenland into an into a new frontier nation with completely open borders for refugees and people who are up for the challenge of settling a new place. Sure, there's nothing there, but if you want to build something and there's nowhere else for you, have at it. EDIT: Out of curiosity, I started looking at Greenland on Google Maps and found this sweet shadow of the buggy they used to…

You know it's tough to live or grow anything there now, but I wonder what climate change will do to the summer temperatures in 10 years. Could we see summer temperatures being warm enough to support agricultural crops.

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#27

Post by ngcc_hk »

adventured wrote: post #12
rhacker wrote: post #4

In today's value it's worth -16B according to this. If we're going to base things on how negative they are, then this article should assume that the United States land is worth -10K per acre (22 trillion debt with 2.3 billion acres of land). So negative values aside, the math to consider how much something is worth should never be based on the drain it has on society - otherwise why do we even have 22T of debt? So sh…

It's not just that your math is ridiculous (as you acknowledge), it doesn't make any sense. Greenland has almost no economy, a mere $2.7b in GDP, and few assets. You can't use negative $22 trillion as the basis with the US while ignoring the $110 trillion in household wealth and massive corporate & government assets (stacked against $50t-$55t in total debt between household + corporate + government). That's the part…

But if someone find diamond in the dark side of the moon, would you sell USA or just al to evil communist for money.

Would you sell your homeland?

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#28

Post by jcranmer »

madaxe_again wrote: post #10

I think, in hindsight, it will turn out to have been an exceptionally good call to retain Greenland. They have an interesting setup - there is no land ownership other than by the state, and you can only get permission to build by winning a lottery. There are minor exceptions for building small hunting cabins in the fjords, but this is negligible. The reason is to prevent private ownership from hindering possible oppo…

> Greenland has vast untapped mineral reserves

So does Northwest Canada, which is much nearer to well-maintained infrastructure for actually moving those resources to places that want them. Siberia is chock-full of places where the mining industries shut down not because they ran out of things to mine but because it was no longer feasible to do so once the subsidies stopped.

Greenland may have mineral resources, but they are nowhere near the top of untapped resources when sorted by economic exploitation abilities.

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#29

Post by scythe »

BurningFrog wrote: post #17
madaxe_again wrote: post #10

I think, in hindsight, it will turn out to have been an exceptionally good call to retain Greenland. They have an interesting setup - there is no land ownership other than by the state, and you can only get permission to build by winning a lottery. There are minor exceptions for building small hunting cabins in the fjords, but this is negligible. The reason is to prevent private ownership from hindering possible oppo…

So far Greenland is a relatively poor and miserable place, with a population of only 56,674. Comparatively, Alaska offers a much better role model for arctic governance.

Alaska is much warmer. Only a few sheltered coastal bays on Greenland can sustain any trees at all. Meanwhile, Sitka and Ketchikan often enjoy snowless winters. This is due, I believe, to the Aleutian ridge blocking the transport of cold water from the Arctic (contrast with the Labrador current).

Re: Why Didn’t Denmark Sell Greenland?

#30

Post by paxys »

anbop wrote: post #11

National territory has a psychological and strategic value that cannot be bought and sold. Countries have gone to war over infinitesimally tiny pieces of land (Gaza, Falklands, Northern Ireland)... we do not need to look to a crystal ball to see why Denmark holds onto a gigantic landmass like Greenland.

Buying and selling of large territories between countries has been very common throughout history, so a blanket statement like this doesn't hold much weight. Much of the United States was bought rather than conquered, and China is doing the same today.
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