Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#21

Post by djsumdog » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

throw0101a wrote: post #10

At what point should we start worrying about Kessler Syndrome? > The Kessler syndrome (also called the Kessler effect,[1][2] collisional cascading or ablation cascade), proposed by the NASA scientist Donald J. Kessler in 1978, is a scenario in which the density of objects in low Earth orbit (LEO) is high enough that collisions between objects could cause a cascade in which each collision generates space debris that i…

I've heard that at least with the SpaceX satellites, they have full plans for decommissioning with these satellites re-entering the atmosphere.

I do agree that this is a real concern though, and we'd hope there's pretty careful consideration, considering the sheer number of satellites being launched. Still, space is big .. really big, even the space just above our planet.

I don't put it past humanity to not fuck up space. After all, look at all the plastics and waste in the oceans. Hopefully all these companies and FCC regulators are thinking far ahead, and require the right designs and safety measures to make sure we don't end up enclosed in a float garbage pile.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#22

Post by sigstoat » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #15

the8472 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's particulary dystopic about it? Preserving nature is valuable because we rely on the ecosystem, you can't really make that argument for the dead emptiness that is space. Ubiquitous space access even is a common theme in scifi utopias!

I think it's close but missing one really key point. Imagine if this was being done by some non profit international consortium funded by many nations.

then it would go over budget by 100x, and if it ever did finish, users would be subjected to the intersection of all of those countries moralizing content bans?

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#23

Post by tyldum » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #4

Should anybody be putting satellites up without some credible plan for decommissioning them from the atmosphere?

No FCC license unless you do, so yeah - it's accounted for. Unless they want to operate entirely without US downlinks. I do ground stations for a living.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#24

Post by _8j50 » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:38 PM UTC

Maybe it's time to talk about tech-free preserves established by international treaties.

E.g.: sections of each continent and ocean can be declared tech free where modern technology is forbidden on earth,sea or land.

This is so we don't lose and forget the nature that forged the present.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#25

Post by jandrewrogers » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:38 PM UTC

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #9

Anyone wanna offer me their hypothesis on what Amazon and other tech companies gain from offering internet to people who probably aren't valuable consumers?

Satellites are outside the regulatory authority of countries they operate over. They can do far more of value than merely provide Internet access to poor people.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#26

Post by onion2k » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #20

reaperducer wrote: post #2

Welcome to the dystopian future where no human anywhere on Earth can look up and see an authentic sky, as their ancestors did. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-a... And thanks to SpaceX (and now Amazon), astronomers will now have to do their observations from space. If only there was a way to get telescopes up there. Oh, wait... SpaceX just happens to have a way to solve the problem it creat…

I don't think 3000 satellites are nearly enough to completely blot out the sky across the entire planet.

That depends on how big they are. :)

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#27

Post by october_sky » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #2

Welcome to the dystopian future where no human anywhere on Earth can look up and see an authentic sky, as their ancestors did. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-a... And thanks to SpaceX (and now Amazon), astronomers will now have to do their observations from space. If only there was a way to get telescopes up there. Oh, wait... SpaceX just happens to have a way to solve the problem it creat…

> where no human anywhere on Earth can look up and see an authentic sky, as their ancestors did.

The past ~80 years of light pollution has already prevented this from happening.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#28

Post by regnerba » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #2

Welcome to the dystopian future where no human anywhere on Earth can look up and see an authentic sky, as their ancestors did. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-a... And thanks to SpaceX (and now Amazon), astronomers will now have to do their observations from space. If only there was a way to get telescopes up there. Oh, wait... SpaceX just happens to have a way to solve the problem it creat…

The video in the article you linked is not a good example of the long term impacts. The satellites were at a lower orbit than their final orbit and not oriented the same way they will be once in their operational orbit. Once they reach their final orbit, which most of them have now, they will be far more spread out, higher, and all around much harder to identify. That and SpaceX is actively working with astronomy groups to try and lower their impact.

Even if they are easily visible, so what. Should we not build roads because then our children wont be able to see things the same as we saw them? It's progress, and really good progress in this case.

All of that aside, I fail to see how it makes a dystopian future. A quick Google says the definition of dystopian is "relating to or denoting an imagined state or society where there is great suffering or injustice." I fail to see how internet providing satellites are making people suffer or feel injustice. If they work out they will bring internet to a substantial number of people who cannot get reliable and cheap access to resources you and I take for granted every day.

SpaceX's whole goal is lowering the cost of access to space. Again assuming they achieve that goal to the degree they want to, and Starship is sure looking to be a giant step in that direction, then deploying a space based telescope very well might just be the better option. You can basically make it as big as you want and shipping it to space could be cheaper than shipping it to some random place on this planet to be built.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#29

Post by chisleu » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:40 PM UTC

jonplackett wrote: post #18

Are there any international agreements covering this stuff? What if China decide they want to launch another 3000 and Russia want to launch another 3000 and India and Japan and whoever else?

not a problem if they are maintained in the way the SpaceX sats are going to be.

Re: Amazon Seeks Permission to Launch 3k Internet Satellites

#30

Post by krapp » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 8:41 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #26

krapp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 3000 satellites are nearly enough to completely blot out the sky across the entire planet.

That depends on how big they are. :)

You're technically correct, which is of course the best kind of correct.

But assuming they're not the size of small moons, the surface area of any orbital plane is still bigger than that of the entire planet. That's a lot of space to fill with objects that have to fit into a single spacecraft.