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Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

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Re: Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

#41

The internet was much nicer before most people were using it. We usually focus on the technology problems here at HN: filter bubbles, skinner box addictive UIs and content feeds, algorithmic and centralized control. Has anyone simply wondered if the problem with the internet is fundamentally that everyone's on it? It used to be an escape from the problems of the real world. Now it's just a new way for the problems of…

An age old joke in IT is that the biggest problem we face is users. If there weren't any users, we wouldn't have any problems.

Re: Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

#42

Is a decentralized social network really the solution? I'd rather enjoy having a social platform managed for the greater good, by a not-for-profit organization. The Mozilla or Wikimedia of social networks.

Doesn't most of the money supporting both Mozilla and Wikimedia come from search engine companies?

Mozilla yes. Wikimedia gets most of its income from donations.

Re: Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

#43

The internet was much nicer before most people were using it. We usually focus on the technology problems here at HN: filter bubbles, skinner box addictive UIs and content feeds, algorithmic and centralized control. Has anyone simply wondered if the problem with the internet is fundamentally that everyone's on it? It used to be an escape from the problems of the real world. Now it's just a new way for the problems of…

Well, the cat is out of the bag now. So we will have to find ways to deal with it rather than ignore it.

Re: Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. But this teeters dangerously close to gatekeeping, elitism, or something along those lines. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but I think how others feel after reading our comments does matter. Better put, because everyone is on the internet now, the real world's problems are now the internet's problems. It used to serve as an escape, true. It has made the world a smaller place, where problems from a…

Gatekeeping is the only way communities can keep themselves healthy. There is no such thing as a universal 'community'. From day one, life has been about letting in certain elements, and keeping out others. Without this selection, development and differentiation are impossible. Similarly we don't (and shouldn't) let every person into our homes, or our countries, or our servers. Why is it seen as an obvious truth that…

> Gatekeeping is the only way communities can keep themselves healthy. There is no such thing as a universal 'community'.

[That's not the kind of gatekeeping I meant, but to your statement...] According to whom? That's one social philosophy, I suppose, but I'd call it more anti-social.

From day one, [human] life has been about sticking together to accomplish more than the sum of our parts. Outcasts aside, the idea that we have to keep others out to continue our way of life is dangerous and wrong, morally and practically.

Re: Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

#45

Thanks for sharing, nothing groundbreaking, but the general principle is there. Modern internet is all about freedom, and sharing, access to info and so own, Wikipedia is a great example of how progressive internet could be. Then there's Facebook that will go miles to access users data, and Trump is tweeting nonsense. I get why people are angry with the state of internet atm.

I'm not sure Wikipedia is as "progressive" you think it is.

Wikipedia is really poorly governed. Past admins say that the most common solution to any dispute is the "status quo". They just hope that problems go away. That's not progress.

Re: Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

#46
I think a big part of the problem is lock-in! How easy is to migrate all your data from one service/app to another? We actually have alternatives across different products, it's just people are lazy or even worse, it's not possible. Facebook exported my data and then what? With an easy way how to move your account data, the best products would win.

Re: Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. But this teeters dangerously close to gatekeeping, elitism, or something along those lines. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but I think how others feel after reading our comments does matter. Better put, because everyone is on the internet now, the real world's problems are now the internet's problems. It used to serve as an escape, true. It has made the world a smaller place, where problems from a…

Gatekeeping is the only way communities can keep themselves healthy. There is no such thing as a universal 'community'. From day one, life has been about letting in certain elements, and keeping out others. Without this selection, development and differentiation are impossible. Similarly we don't (and shouldn't) let every person into our homes, or our countries, or our servers. Why is it seen as an obvious truth that…

>Why is it seen as an obvious truth that we should allow every single person onto the Internet, without ever being able to remove them?...

Because it is obvious. Everyone should be able to access the internet.

Now, do the various internet communities have a right to ban people they don't want around? Yes. Absolutely.

However, that's not "gate keeping", it's more accurately called Freedom of Association and the government is implicitly restricted from denying you such freedom via the First. (Provided you are in the US.) And, yes, Freedom of Association is wonderful. That's why we're not subjected to child porn, or nut jobs gunning down little old jewish and black ladies at worship, or 7 year old girls being disemboweled. Etc etc etc. If those people want to share their content, they can, they just need to do it in their own community where the rest of us don't have to see it. Because they are, mercifully for the rest of us, generally banned from our general communities.

I guess I'm just hoping that what you meant was that people should be able to remove others from their community. Not that people should be able to remove others from the internet. (Although a lot of that stuff, I mean, I wouldn't lose any sleep if it became unavailable tomorrow. I'd probably cheer in fact.)

Re: Wikipedia co-founder slams the ‘appalling’ internet

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. But this teeters dangerously close to gatekeeping, elitism, or something along those lines. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but I think how others feel after reading our comments does matter. Better put, because everyone is on the internet now, the real world's problems are now the internet's problems. It used to serve as an escape, true. It has made the world a smaller place, where problems from a…

Gatekeeping is the only way communities can keep themselves healthy. There is no such thing as a universal 'community'. From day one, life has been about letting in certain elements, and keeping out others. Without this selection, development and differentiation are impossible. Similarly we don't (and shouldn't) let every person into our homes, or our countries, or our servers. Why is it seen as an obvious truth that…

> Why is it seen as an obvious truth that we should allow every single person onto the Internet, without ever being able to remove them?

All very well and good until one day society decides you are one of the people that needs to be removed.

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