Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#1

Post by _pygv » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

About one year ago, I decided to start a startup with my brother. We moved into a cheap city and flatshare with my brother and another friend. The other friend is working on his own startup on his own, no issue there. My problem is that my brother has a very hard time motivating himself working and he is not very motivated about ML/AI/DL either. A few numbers: he works ~1h/day on bad days, and 3-4h/days on good days. And we barely talk about ML/AI, maybe once per week. (With the other guy, I talk about these topics constantly).

We discussed the issue, it looks like he has an issue with chronic fatigue (in his old work, he had a hard time keeping his focus on his work), so fatigue may be unrelated to work. At the same time, he plays videogames for much longer than that, so I suspect what he is doing impacts motivation.

I tried to find ways with him to motivate himself, but I see no improvement. We talked about scaling equity with time spend working. I am thinking about asking him to track time more precisely with an app such as rescue time, but I feel this is a stupid thing to ask to a co-founder and the core issue lies deeper.

I have no issue whatsoever working on my own on this project (I wrote the overwhelming majority of the code myself), but I feel bad for him if I push him aside, although it might be a good thing for him because it would force him to take responsibility of his situation.

Thoughts?

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#2

Post by the-dude » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

Friction very early on + family member.

Cut your losses before stuff gets more complicated, consider teaming up with the other guy.

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#3

Post by FBISurveillance » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

In my experience you should avoid doing business with your friends and family. Countless times have I seen relationships get destroyed when money are involved. Heck, I've been there myself more than once ("this time it'll be ok" I thought).

If you start asking yourself this question you should probably part ways. If you're going to hold that to yourself, chances are you'll start hating him slowly like boiling a frog.

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#4

Post by aurizon » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

Sadly, he would rather play games than work on your common future. This is like swimming with a 150 pound toad on your back who also eats your food, a good job if you can get it... Analyze this as if you were speaking with a friend who had this exact problem - what would you tell him to do? From another point of view. you are creating a fail mode system for him to operate in. He has no success mode, apart from that of a tapeworm, just keep on suckin' on little bro, when he is sucked dry, find another host.

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#5

Post by _pygv » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

aurizon wrote: post #4

Sadly, he would rather play games than work on your common future. This is like swimming with a 150 pound toad on your back who also eats your food, a good job if you can get it... Analyze this as if you were speaking with a friend who had this exact problem - what would you tell him to do? From another point of view. you are creating a fail mode system for him to operate in. He has no success mode, apart from that o…

I still get the feeling that he has no bad intensions of "free-riding", just that he tries but cannot deliver. That's why I'm willing to give him a chance.

I agree with the "fail mode system" though

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#6

Post by _pygv » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

FBISurveillance wrote: post #3

In my experience you should avoid doing business with your friends and family. Countless times have I seen relationships get destroyed when money are involved. Heck, I've been there myself more than once ("this time it'll be ok" I thought). If you start asking yourself this question you should probably part ways. If you're going to hold that to yourself, chances are you'll start hating him slowly like boiling a frog.

The situation has been slowly been getting worse and worse (it has a boiling frog aspect to it). And I think that's why I put up with it for a long time. But if I compare what I had in mind (startup mode in which we spending the vast majority of our time working) when we started working and the current situation, it's night and day.

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#7

Post by highhedgehog » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

FBISurveillance wrote: post #3

In my experience you should avoid doing business with your friends and family. Countless times have I seen relationships get destroyed when money are involved. Heck, I've been there myself more than once ("this time it'll be ok" I thought). If you start asking yourself this question you should probably part ways. If you're going to hold that to yourself, chances are you'll start hating him slowly like boiling a frog.

I second this. I had a friend asking me to join his business and I said: "I'm sorry but I don't feel comfortable working (seriously) with friends because I don't want to ruin the relationship and also I don't want to feel bad if I want to leave". Plus you wouldn't feel comfortable asking for raises etc.

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#8

Post by _pygv » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #2

Friction very early on + family member. Cut your losses before stuff gets more complicated, consider teaming up with the other guy.

The other guy has his own project and he is kicking ass (good coder, works a lot, interested in roughly the same topics as I am). So I doubt he would switch from his project to mine, although I thought he may when we started flatsharing. I think this is a possibility if my project takes off and his flattens out, but I'm not counting on that. The most likely scenario is that I continue on my own for a while.

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#9

Post by the-dude » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

_pygv wrote: post #8

the-dude wrote: post #2

Friction very early on + family member. Cut your losses before stuff gets more complicated, consider teaming up with the other guy.

The other guy has his own project and he is kicking ass (good coder, works a lot, interested in roughly the same topics as I am). So I doubt he would switch from his project to mine, although I thought he may when we started flatsharing. I think this is a possibility if my project takes off and his flattens out, but I'm not counting on that. The most likely scenario is that I continue on my own for a while.

To both of you : solo-founding is thrice as hard. You could still team up and work on both projects. Of course, this requires serious commitment regarding the IP ( you should both become co-owners of each others IP ).

Re: Ask HN: Should I part ways with my cofounder?

#10

Post by davismwfl » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

I see the comments from others about working with family or friends being bad. I have done both more than once, and I grew up in a family that was entrepreneurial and supported us through different businesses. Can working with family be hard? Yep. Is it different then working with a stranger? Nope.

Whether you work with family, friends or strangers it is a relationship and so you have to choose wisely who you go into business with. Your brother sounds as though he was lacking motivation before you guys started. My 2 cents is he is more likely depressed than suffering from chronic fatigue, only he really knows right now but either way means he should seek some professional assistance.

In your case, to be direct, you probably picked poorly in this case, not because he is your brother, but because his work focus was poor prior. Continuing to accept it only makes the situation harder, so it does have to be addressed sooner rather than later, which sounds like you are doing.

In my experience and opinion, you need to be direct with him, not confrontational/argumentative but direct. And you need to say that you don't want to continue with him as a co-founder if he can't find the motivation to make things successful. And frankly, ask him if he really wants to be the reason you suffer. No you aren't laying a guilt trip on him because you are prepared to move forward, asking him if he wants to see you fail or the company fail gives him the opportunity to view his actions differently.

The key is you have to make a decision soon. Either you are going to accept him and try to help him through this while he is part of the business, or you cut your business ties and move forward but still help him through this personally to what degree you can. Be clear with this that it is cutting the business ties and nothing else. Make extra efforts for awhile to continue the relationship outside of the business and include him in activities so he feels that not just hears comments. This is the same way you would handle a friend you cut as a co-founder if you value the relationship, which is why I see no difference between friend and family in this case. But you have to make a decision and not blame him for it, it is just facts of the business and move forward. If you spend your time blaming him or delaying the decision you will resent him more everyday and this will destroy the relationship, but if you do that it is your fault not his.