Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#121

Post by rev12 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

It seems like there are two camps of people:

Those who are very pleased to hear they will be backpedaling on their updated keyboard designs.

Those who "don't understand" because they actually like the new keyboards (and the TouchBar even).

No matter where you stand, the new keyboards are highly controversial and divisive, and that's not good. The old keyboards didn't put people into opposing sides, they just were there. Sure people compared them to other manufacturer keyboards, sometimes for the worse and other times for the better, but it wasn't a hate or love relationship by the user base. There was no "getting used to it," it was just a keyboard.

I look forward to a return to a non controversial, highly usable and widely accepted as "fine", keyboard. I hope that's what we get.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#122

Post by patrec » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

shurcooL wrote: post #87

kenneth wrote: post #17

Once I got used to the new keyboards, I actually far prefer them. Ditto with the TouchBar. Yeah, I'm a heretic I suppose. Keyboard: pleasant clicky-ness and little movement required. Thin AF. TouchBar: customized with BetterTouchTools to be a hybrid of my most often-used shortcuts (expand menu, alfred, fantastical, window management, and 1password on the left, notification center and lock screen on the right) and mus…

> Oh and the escape key… long remapped to caps lock. If I really need caps lock, fn + caps lock key toggles it. I've remapped escape to caps lock too, but how do you get fn + caps lock to toggle caps lock?

I'm pretty sure you can do it with karabiner, this page has an example with mapping shift+capslock to capslock:

https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/complex_modifications/

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#123

Post by bayindirh » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

pxlpshr wrote: post #115

The comments in this thread are hilarious. I guess some of you all have forgotten about that can of duster you’ve relied on for the last 30+ years to clean the muck from just about every keyboard. I don’t understand the rage... I use my MBP just as much as anyone, the butterfly keys feel so much better than the old clickity keys and I’ve gotten use to the TouchBar. F Keys we’re useless to me unless they were remapped…

I'm also pretty flexible in my ways and, can accept maintenance of equipment but, assuming one size fits all is a wrong path to follow IMHO.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#124

Post by gdubs » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

pxlpshr wrote: post #115

The comments in this thread are hilarious. I guess some of you all have forgotten about that can of duster you’ve relied on for the last 30+ years to clean the muck from just about every keyboard. I don’t understand the rage... I use my MBP just as much as anyone, the butterfly keys feel so much better than the old clickity keys and I’ve gotten use to the TouchBar. F Keys we’re useless to me unless they were remapped…

Been kind of my experience too. Bought my wife a rose gold entry level MacBook a couple of years back and, it’s one of the nicest laptops I’ve ever had. I have a MacBook Pro for work and the touchbar doesn’t bother me. Screen is beautiful, plenty powerful.

I’ll throw one crit out there though: the wireless mouse on my iMac Pro. When it runs out of batteries you have to plug it in, but it plugs in on the bottom. Wired mice have existed since the invention of the mouse, so it’s pretty frustrating that you can’t just plug it in to the front and have it act like a wired mouse while charging. This was clearly done so that the mouse could have its svelte shape. Sigh.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#125

Post by wmeredith » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

rev12 wrote: post #121

It seems like there are two camps of people: Those who are very pleased to hear they will be backpedaling on their updated keyboard designs. Those who "don't understand" because they actually like the new keyboards (and the TouchBar even). No matter where you stand, the new keyboards are highly controversial and divisive, and that's not good. The old keyboards didn't put people into opposing sides, they just were the…

This is the real point. A keyboard IS AN INTERFACE. The point of it is to move information between two things: the computer and me. It is a means. If I notice it at all, that’s a negative.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#126

Post by masklinn » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #111

xattt wrote: post #85

I sardonically worry that they will offer a touch screen keyboard instead.

I'm amazed by my iPhone 8 home button. It's not a real button, it's just an imitation, but its feedback is so real. I don't know whether it would be possible, but I think that it's a possibility: to imitate an entire keyboard with just flat touch panel. That would solve all problems with those movement parts that always failing and there would be no holes for dust at all!

The trackpad on macbook pros work the same. There's a big issue there though: on a keyboard you want and expect travel at the physical level, that travel is a significant part of the feedback. One of the issues in the butterfly is many people hurt after typing for some time, the lack of resistance before smashing into the hard stop is a source of physical trauma.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#127

Post by arvinsim » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #119

vbezhenar wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed by my iPhone 8 home button. It's not a real button, it's just an imitation, but its feedback is so real. I don't know whether it would be possible, but I think that it's a possibility: to imitate an entire keyboard with just flat touch panel. That would solve all problems with those movement parts that always failing and there would be no holes for dust at all!

Taptic Engine is a very good click emulator. The touchpad of newer MacBooks and tactile feedbacks of newer iPhones are just amazing. On the other side, nothing can emulate a good (even membrane) keyboard, because typing's most important sensory feedback is not touch or sound, but finger travel. I'm a programmer and use a variety of keyboards. I have an 2014 MacBook Pro, a lowish end membrane keyboard at office and a…

It's pretty hard to go back to membrane or scissor switches when one has gotten used to a mechanical keyboard.

When I bough the small Magic Keyboard 2 for use with my midi controller(I needed a bluetooth keyboard), it took me weeks to adjust. It felt like banging on a flat table for a while.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#128

Post by Octoth0rpe » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

rev12 wrote: post #121

It seems like there are two camps of people: Those who are very pleased to hear they will be backpedaling on their updated keyboard designs. Those who "don't understand" because they actually like the new keyboards (and the TouchBar even). No matter where you stand, the new keyboards are highly controversial and divisive, and that's not good. The old keyboards didn't put people into opposing sides, they just were the…

> The old keyboards didn't put people into opposing sides, they just were there.

Have you ever spoken to a thinkpad advocate re: chiclet keyboards? The previous mac keyboards were absolutely controversial. It took years for the previous keyboard to be 'just a keyboard', which I do acknowledge happened.

> I look forward to a return to a non controversial, highly usable and widely accepted as "fine", keyboard.

Honestly, this will never happen for two reasons:

1) people's needs are diverse enough where that's simply an impossible job. I happen to _really_ like the current apple keyboards, but the reliability is bad enough for me to want a change. The consensus where I work (100ish mac laptops) is that the keyboard is awful. Someone is going to be unhappy, and it sounds like it might be me :(

2) There's some segment of the technology world (non-unix people?) that will latch onto any criticism of apple - fair/deserved or not - and shout it endlessly.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#129

Post by cs02rm0 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

Oh, it's definitely true.

I've just bought one after holding out for 6 years since my last MBP. Everyone's wishes will be granted imminently.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#130

Post by patrec » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

Apart from reliability concerns (mine hasn't failed yet), the macbook 12" butterfly incarnation has become my favorite mobile keyboard now. Other keyboards, like my old-gen macbook pro feel mushy in comparison now, and at least for the ultra-svelte macbook 12" the obsession with thinness and lightness does pay off. I wonder if we will see a wave of butterfly nostalgia when the new design comes out.