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Hillbillies Need No Elegy

bittersoutherner.com

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Re: Hillbillies Need No Elegy

#111

Post by jessaustin »

50208 wrote: post #108
jessaustin wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the force and worth of Vance's take would be ZERO if he was an outsider. JD Vance was born and raised in Middletown OH. This is far SW Ohio, on the border with Indiana. (It was something of a surprise to me that any part of Ohio is considered Appalachian, but then I've spent most of my Ohio time in Toledo. [0]) There are hills, but those hills are not the Appalachians. JD Vance is from the Midwest. Has he actuall…

Vance' detailed the large migration of Eastern Kentucky folks moving to Ohio / Indiana for jobs in the generations before he was born ... and noting how they all maintained a lifeline and frequented remaining Eastern Kentucky family. His claim is solid IMO.

It's cool that he identifies with another region where he never lived and his parents never lived. Lots of humans feel a special connection to places from their family histories. The fact that his family hasn't lived there in several generations (he was raised by grandparents in western Ohio) makes his broad statements about the region and about his own family history with respect to the region problematic. There's no need (besides a psychological one, perhaps) to invoke something about eastern Kentucky to explain his mother's addictions. There are addicts all over the world, including (especially, if reports in other media are believed) in Ohio. If a similar book had been written attributing family and personal dysfunction to a distant descent from any other region or nation, it would have received a different reception. Why are the Appalachians different?

Re: Hillbillies Need No Elegy

#112

Post by 50208 »

jessaustin wrote: post #111
50208 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vance' detailed the large migration of Eastern Kentucky folks moving to Ohio / Indiana for jobs in the generations before he was born ... and noting how they all maintained a lifeline and frequented remaining Eastern Kentucky family. His claim is solid IMO.

It's cool that he identifies with another region where he never lived and his parents never lived. Lots of humans feel a special connection to places from their family histories. The fact that his family hasn't lived there in several generations (he was raised by grandparents in western Ohio) makes his broad statements about the region and about his own family history with respect to the region problematic. There's n…

Technically, according to the book, his parents grew up there and he spent summers there. I would say that is "lived". And as you surely know, a larger percentage of the population is addicted to opiates in Appalachia than in most other areas. I would say that is "problematic".

Re: Hillbillies Need No Elegy

#113

Post by jessaustin »

50208 wrote: post #112
jessaustin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cool that he identifies with another region where he never lived and his parents never lived. Lots of humans feel a special connection to places from their family histories. The fact that his family hasn't lived there in several generations (he was raised by grandparents in western Ohio) makes his broad statements about the region and about his own family history with respect to the region problematic. There's n…

Technically, according to the book, his parents grew up there and he spent summers there. I would say that is "lived". And as you surely know, a larger percentage of the population is addicted to opiates in Appalachia than in most other areas. I would say that is "problematic".

Citation sorely needed. Every time we read about the "opiate catastrophe", Ohio or Indiana features prominently. You know, where he actually was born and also graduated high school and university. I can't believe I'm having this argument with a greenbean account. Why are you embarrassed to denigrate the Appalachian region using a permanent pseudonym?

And this is denigration, which would be accepted for no other region or nation. In the first place, because it defies logic that some lawyer with no particular sociological training would be accepted as some sort of authority about a region he visited as a child during some summers when his hectic home life allowed. Second, because blaming culture for the misfortunes of any particular group of people is the oldest trick of racists, trickle-down economists, and other awful people. This book is full of corny anecdotes proving Vance is one of those awful people; he judged this person for showing up to work late and that person for smoking too many cigarettes. Third, because ITT we've seen Morgantown WV questioned as "authentically Appalachian"; this is serious double standards.

Re: Hillbillies Need No Elegy

#114

Post by culturestate »

Frondo wrote: post #72
culturestate wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The stereotypes of the regions just aren't the same, and they do affect people applying for jobs. I've been around motorsports most of my life and I used to see this all the time at racetracks in America. Even in NASCAR country, lots of people assume the "good ol' boy" accent means a person is just a shade-tree mechanic even if they're the most well-educated person in the garage.

Heh, funnily enough, a few years ago I was at a rodeo with some friends, and this was in rural Oregon. One of the announcers was a radio personality on some country station in the Portland area (I think -- something like that, at least). For most of the rodeo he spoke with a thick drawl, obviously going for the "good ol' boy" vibe. A few times, he slipped up and spoke with a very plain Portland/PNW accent. It was jar…

Honestly, I do this a lot when I'm back visiting relatives who live in the southern US; my neutral accent goes out the window and I add a little twang, speak more slowly, and say things like "thank you ma'am" a lot. It's kinda second nature since I went to school in a rural-ish area (University of Florida) and it makes a shockingly big difference in how people treat you sometimes.

Re: Hillbillies Need No Elegy

#115

Post by 50208 »

jessaustin wrote: post #113
50208 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, according to the book, his parents grew up there and he spent summers there. I would say that is "lived". And as you surely know, a larger percentage of the population is addicted to opiates in Appalachia than in most other areas. I would say that is "problematic".

Citation sorely needed. Every time we read about the "opiate catastrophe", Ohio or Indiana features prominently. You know, where he actually was born and also graduated high school and university. I can't believe I'm having this argument with a greenbean account. Why are you embarrassed to denigrate the Appalachian region using a permanent pseudonym? And this is denigration, which would be accepted for no other regio…

My "pseudonym" or green account is not an issue. Google for any map of opioid crisis ... you'll see the same thing: KY, WV OH lead the way. Just pointing out you seem to have misspoke about his family and how "appalachiany" they were. BTW: You haven't worked with that guy he was describing, the smoker that shows up late (if at all) and takes breaks all the time? I've worked with several of those types. His judgement is on target. https://www.statnews.com/2017/04/25/opioid-deaths-map/

Re: Hillbillies Need No Elegy

#116

Post by jessaustin »

50208 wrote: post #115
jessaustin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation sorely needed. Every time we read about the "opiate catastrophe", Ohio or Indiana features prominently. You know, where he actually was born and also graduated high school and university. I can't believe I'm having this argument with a greenbean account. Why are you embarrassed to denigrate the Appalachian region using a permanent pseudonym? And this is denigration, which would be accepted for no other regio…

My "pseudonym" or green account is not an issue. Google for any map of opioid crisis ... you'll see the same thing: KY, WV OH lead the way. Just pointing out you seem to have misspoke about his family and how "appalachiany" they were. BTW: You haven't worked with that guy he was describing, the smoker that shows up late (if at all) and takes breaks all the time? I've worked with several of those types. His judgement…

Your link is interesting, Mr. Vance. It indicates that "drug overdose mortality" has changed over time in various regions of USA. Apparently in 1999 all the Appalachian hillbillies lived in California and the Southwest. For some reason they gradually moved East? Yours is a confusing worldview, to say the least.

It's one thing to dislike a particular person, for whatever reason. It's quite another to see that person as an exemplar of the negative attributes of all the residents of another region where you have never lived. It's another yet when the exemplary person you dislike is also not from that region...

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