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I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

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Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#171

Post by mixmastamyk »

ConcernedCoder wrote: post #127
kkotak wrote: post #125

I see the issue with false positive, but I don't get the privacy argument here. Scanning your face vs your passport is not any different from privacy perspective.

Imagine this: "Years from now, the party/person in power goes completely nuts, and starts rounding people up in train cars to ship off to a final solution facility... would you prefer to try to sneak out of the country when: A. only your passport/papers identify you, or B. your face can be recognized from any video camera in the country..."

Just a few weeks ago there was a thread on this site discussing how IBM census taking machines made it all possible to identify the undesirables. Now it's trivial.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#172

Post by enonevets »

misterprime wrote: post #122
dalore wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I asked if I could get a pat down instead of the backscatter x-ray at Heathrow. Was made to feel like a criminal, questioned etc and put under pressure. And then to be told I don't have to get scanned but I can't get on my flight unless I do. There wasn't even an opt out.

That goes completely counter to my experiences. From 2009 to 2017 I chose to "opt out" every time. Here's what happened for me each time: 1. They make you wait while they get someone to do the work. 2. They offer to take you somewhere private (I declined). 3. They tell you the routine ("I'm gonna go up your leg until I feel resistance"). 4. They wipe their gloves and put them in a chemical detector. 5. They let you g…

If you're flying with a non-precheck friend and they're willing to let you book their flights and they pay you back, they'll benefit from you having precheck and their ticket will include precheck as well.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#173

Post by bonestamp2 »

kowdermeister wrote: post #22
aurbano wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. What is the privacy concern of allowing face recognition if you are letting them scan your passport?

Maybe you don't want new data points on your face in a database.

It would make sense if that were true, but they already have his face. All he's really opting out of is them matching the one in their database when he's standing there. Maybe there's some value in that, but I agree the real value is not giving them your face to begin with and it's too late for that by the time you get to the gate... they've already got it.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#174

Post by dang »

simond_d wrote: post #74
scottlocklin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Internal flight could be anonymous, but when is the last time anyone paid for flights by cash? Let me tell you about flying before 1996, kid. It was great. No ID presented, you just needed a paper ticket. You could actually buy and sell paper tickets on usenet (and people did), and you could wave to your family when you get on the airplane as you didn't need a ticket to be in the boarding area. I thought it was a di…

Nothing you've said here would make me want to go back to 1996 and take a flight, granddad.

Every one of your posts to HN has included a personal attack. That's not allowed here, so we've banned the account.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#175

Post by dang »

steelframe wrote: post #138
simond_d wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you've said here would make me want to go back to 1996 and take a flight, granddad.

Everything he said would make me want to take more flights, you child.

Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#176

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #174
simond_d wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you've said here would make me want to go back to 1996 and take a flight, granddad.

Every one of your posts to HN has included a personal attack. That's not allowed here, so we've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .

[deleted]

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#177

Post by simond_d »

dang wrote: post #174
simond_d wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you've said here would make me want to go back to 1996 and take a flight, granddad.

Every one of your posts to HN has included a personal attack. That's not allowed here, so we've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .

You mean the whole 1 comment I ever made before? It's these condescending idiots that bring it out in me.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#178

Post by simion314 »

OrgNet wrote: post #169
simion314 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The passport is in your hand, you place it on the table where it can be scanned and compared with your face. If they have your face in the database can you travel without a physical passport?

So you could just use a fake passport? Yeah to tell you the truth, I'm not sure why a passport is required... Just like driver licenses and tag registrations, they have all the information on their computers.

>So you could just use a fake passport?

Why do you think so? If a human can detect a fake passport why a computer scanner can't detect it?

It even makes sense to do it like this: 1 the passport includes a picture of you but it could include a hash of your biometric face

2 you go at the checkpoint, put the passport in a scanner and your face is also photographed by a camera, the sash is generated and compared, then the hash is deleted, the airport people just care that the passport is real(they can check serial codes or chips if present in the passport, check the other security areas of the passport) and the person using the passport is the one in the passport.

Airports or air transport companies should not be in bussiness of collecting bio-metric data. If NSA or the government of a country wants to create such a database they should propose a law for it, when you get or renew your ID card,passport then you would be added to the national database because such is the law not because you are forced to chose between getting in the plane faster or some unpleasant alternative way/

There is no

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#179

Post by alasdair_ »

CalRobert wrote: post #20
UweSchmidt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going against implicit expectations of others and being the only one who does something is maybe the hardest thing humans can do. Opting out could risk holding up the boarding process, possibly missing the flight, unpleasant treatment by security and being pitted against the other passengers - all of it to opt out of something is clearly a dark pattern. All of this is very well understood by the people who designed t…

I'm always sad when I'm the only one opting for a patdown at the airport after Defcon.

> I'm always sad when I'm the only one opting for a patdown at the airport after Defcon.

I made the decision that I was okay handing over personal information one time to get TSA Pre if it meant I could skip the naked scanners, not have to take off my shoes, avoid patdowns etc.

Generally when I'm coming back from Defcon I have a whole lot of stuff with me that I'd really rather avoid having someone take a closer look at.

I still strongly respect people that take a stronger stance than I.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#180

Post by alasdair_ »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #145
tdxcbkifxx wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your opinion on deepnude?

Revenge porn is terrible, but I don't think that's relevant here. Can you think of a plausible scenario where a backscatter machine's data could be used against someone? They didn't save your face; I don't know what someone would look at. And that's if the machines actually saved any data, which was not supposed to happen.

>And that's if the machines actually saved any data, which was not supposed to happen.

And yet... https://gizmodo.com/one-hundred-naked-citizens-one-hundred-l...

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