Earlier quoted context omitted.
Possible.
Doesn't GPL actually offer a person a freedom to study the code? Isn't it a common phenomena of rewriting GPL Linux Driver into BSD Licensed driver which will be put into mainline *BSD? I know the case of OpenBSD 'stealing' GPL code from broadcom linux driver, but it was done by a naive kernel developer who copy-pasted the code and the maintainer who didn't bother to check the authenticity of the code. But AFAIK no G…
A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
261–270 of 291 posts
Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#262Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#263Nasty article
Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d love that you point to an instance where the private symbols of the kernel actually shipped? It is very possible that some private symbols were part of some leak, but stolen data does not qualify as “shipping” :) Again, I stand behind my opinion. I eyeballed some of the code side-by-side and there was portions where I could literally see a line-by-line correlation, which I can hardly explain. Then if reversing th…
The private symbols have in the past ended up on the public symbol server (and quickly taken down), they have ending up "shipping" in public symbol packs. I can't point to specific incidents as the links to them no longer exist. This is why I said accidentally as they were not released as a conscious effort on MS's part. However you seem to want to claim the only place those symbols can come from is being stolen. Of…
Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
The author of post, Axel Rietschin at Microsoft, should remove this post and publicly apologize for his baseless defamation of ReactOS ("like a baby mosquito on the back of an giant elephant") if he cannot give authoritative evidence to back his claims. There may be copyright issues in some subroutines, but calling the entire project "a ripoff of the Windows Research Kernel" is an extraordinary, arrogant claim. If yo…
It’s my personal opinion and it’s based on my lecture of ReactOS code at the time I downloaded it (circa when I wrote my reply on Quora). I think anyone who can read C code can reach similar conclusions just by eyeballing the code in ReactOS and the code from the leaked Research Kernel, that can be found for example on GitHub. As a matter fact, someone on this thread did just that and it did not take that person very…
If you had interviewee A write some piece of code, and then said to interviewee B "I want you to solve this problem as close as possible as the person before you did it, here is their executable", you'd be quite surprised what they could do. Especially if interviewee B is Alex Ionescu.
Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#266Thanks for the link, o for a bunch of new followers on Quora today and was wondering why :) There are lots of good answers in this thread. In particular, someone took the time to look at the code, and that person wrote it only took them minutes to find similarities that make my opinion difficult to dismiss. About the lack of documentation, consider that only a tiny fraction of the kernel’s internals surface in the DD…
Microsoft complaining about ripped off source code? You are the blackest pot in the history of computer software. https://www.geek.com/news/microsoft-uses-open-source-code-54... https://lwn.net/Articles/245805/
Not that microsoft has never crossed any lines - even the naming of the Windows operating system seems morally dubious - but in this case I don't see any issue with what they've done.
Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is that really clean-room, though? (Note that "clean-room" is not a term in US copyright law, it's just a technique that certain people hope results in a work that is not a derivative of whatever they're reimplementing.) If I learn a pop song, and sing it and accompany myself on the piano, and someone else transcribes it, then two things are true: first, of course it will result in identical melodies and chord progre…
> If I learn a pop song, and sing it and accompany myself on the piano, and someone else transcribes it, I hate bad analogies. A bad analogy just confuses the issue. There's one and exactly one song called "Billie Jean", which was written, composed, and performed by Michael Jackson. There are however a thousand different works relating the history of Michael Jackson's work with Quincy Jones in producing the song "Bil…
What does "a Windows NT kernel" mean? Exposes the same interface? (Does Linux + WINE count?) Operates internally in the same way?
Maybe a better example is UNIX. Linux offers the same conceptual interface, but is neither binary-compatible with UNIX nor is implemented the same way. It is not UNIX, and does not infringe. NT, FreeBSD, and Solaris all have / had compatibility interfaces for Linux that are binary-compatible but wildly different internally. They also do not infringe. And no "clean-room" work was necessary to reach this state.
Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#268My experience goes back to the days when I was using Lifeboat Associates' distribution of Tim Paterson's 86-DOS and before that Gary Kildall's CP/M on S-100 machines and that was before Bill Gates purchased 86-DOS from Paterson for a pittance which he then used as the basis of MS-DOS. It was the unfairness of that deal that has made me extremely wary or Microsoft ever since—it was wariness past decades since then have taught me was the right stance to take.
I would also point out I have no direct allegiance to ReactOS per se except that I've tested it on multiple occasions and found it quite unsatisfactory (unfortunately), in fact over the years I've dubbed it "The Going Nowhere OS".
I have no comment about whether ReactOS is a 'ripoff' of Windows or not as I'm not acquainted with the facts. I would suggest however that Axel Rietschin use the word "ripoff" with great care given that he's working for Microsoft—he should take heed of the old quip about "glasshouses" and "stones". I would however excuse his exuberance if he's young enough to be a victim of air-brushed history which large corporations are so good at creating.
The key issue that everyone has essentially missed is why this seemingly foolhardy attempt to recreate Windows was attempted in the first place and I'd suggest that it has its roots in the failure of government to uphold existing US Antitrust Law which has a long history back to the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. Especially from the Reagan era onward, administrations have failed spectacularly to stop the growth of digital-era monopolies let alone extend Antitrust Law with much-needed extensions that befit the digital era. (It's been clear for years that not only should Antitrust Law be modernized for the digital era but also the changes must be of a degree of sophistication that will make them effective rather than just being a paper tiger).
I don't have the time here to develop all the arguments and go into all the ins and outs about why Microsoft and its Windows monopoly happened and why ultimately the monopoly is a disaster for both users and computing generally so I'll attempt to use a crude analogy to illustrate my point.
Let's pretend that in the 1800s a potential railroad owner had managed to patent the standard rail gauge but either because of ineffective patent law or that government failed to police existing law the patent owner was not obliged to license the technology to his competitors for reasonable fees (or that he refused to issue licenses altogether).
He now has an effective monopoly and investors say whoopee and they invest sufficient capital to build a dozen railroads that span the US from east to west which are sufficiently separated north to south to cover 90% of the country.
In the meantime, his competitors complain to Congress and Congress realizes the error its ways and changes the law to force the patent owner to license the technology for reasonable rates. Meantime, the monopoly has been effective so his competitors are unable to raise the funds as investors believe that the ROI on the remaining 10% will be too small and thus the venture is too risky an investment—especially given the huge initial cost to get the project started (an amount that was fine for the patent owner who had the whole country at his disposal but far too risky for latecomers). The outcome: the monopoly remains in place and the final 10% of the country remains unserved.
Now consider the case when Congress doesn't amend the patent law and 10% of the country still wants its railroad coverage. Anarchy breaks out and each little town defies the law and builds local railways in defiance. In the grand schema of railroad coverage of the US, this hardly matters but many are mighty pissed off that their government has let them down. One of the consequences is that once law-abiding citizens lose respect for laws and law-makers and ultimately the rule of law generally.
When the law breaks down either through existing law being not enforced or through inadequate law—especially when the reason for government taking no action is because of the effective lobbying of monopolists—then you cannot blame the citizenry for taking the law into its own hands (after all, government governs only by content of the citizenry as Thoreau aptly explains in his famous 1848 essay "On the Duty of Civil Disobedience").
You only have to look around you at the world today to know "ethics" and "government" are incongruous words and have been on a collision course for decades. In these circumstances I can only encourage the ReactOS team to continue what they are doing and damn the consequences. (As it seems to me things will only get worse before we come to our senses, so let's get it over with.)
Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#269Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”
#270Thanks for the link, o for a bunch of new followers on Quora today and was wondering why :) There are lots of good answers in this thread. In particular, someone took the time to look at the code, and that person wrote it only took them minutes to find similarities that make my opinion difficult to dismiss. About the lack of documentation, consider that only a tiny fraction of the kernel’s internals surface in the DD…
Of course it’s not a proper clean-room copy. This is immediately clear to anyone who’s worked on NTOS or who has source code license.
It been obvious for years. The only possible conclusion is that MSFT doesn’t care.