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Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

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31–40 of 127 posts

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#31
post #6

Does this energy consumption come more from mining (i.e. finding the new bitcoins) or from transactions? If the former, then the Bitcoin network should find a way to reward nodes for transactions in a more environmentally-friendly manner since mining should (in my understanding) disappear or become insignificant at some point.

Why would miners ever agree to that?

The alternative is government regulation eg banning mining cryptocurrencies.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#34
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoins energy consumption has no correlation with its transaction throughput. Price goes up > People turn on more miners > Difficulty goes up > Less efficient miners become unprofitable > People turn off more miners > Difficulty goes down. It's a self-correcting dynamic purely due to economics, not linked to usage.

So ever since Bitcoin's creation, it has been using the exact same amount of power? Because the transaction throughput surely has changed. Do you not agree that, loosely, there is a correlation between transaction throughput/ popularity/ real world usage, and the amount of people being happy to invest time, effort, and money into mining?

The amount of power may not be the same, but the economic formula hasn't changed from the start. Inputs to that formula are solely bitcoin price / hardware price / electricity price / other miners. Miners don't care about network throughput at all.

Is this market failure? I don't know... Bitcoin still works despite it.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#35
post #6

Does this energy consumption come more from mining (i.e. finding the new bitcoins) or from transactions? If the former, then the Bitcoin network should find a way to reward nodes for transactions in a more environmentally-friendly manner since mining should (in my understanding) disappear or become insignificant at some point.

> Does this energy consumption come more from mining (i.e. finding the new bitcoins) or from transactions?

They're not different things. Mined blocks is how you add transactions to the chain (because bitcoin is PoW-based). The miner is rewarded as part of that process by embedding a coinbase transaction in the block, which lets them create a set number of new coins out of nowhere (as well as collecting transaction fees from the transactions they include in the block)

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#36
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a feature yes but that makes this technology very inefficient to process transactions.

"Very inefficient" is an understatement too! I wonder how much energy Visa and Mastercard combined use to process their transactions. Mind you, they probably do orders of magnitude more transactions per second. I recently had a discussion with a friend about the viability of a distributed/ blockchain alternative to YouTube. Extrapolating BTC inefficiency to a distributed CDN processing TBs and PBs of traffic...

> "Very inefficient" is an understatement too! I wonder how much energy Visa and Mastercard combined use to process their transactions. Mind you, they probably do orders of magnitude more transactions per second.

There's about 6 orders of magnitude difference in transaction cost. Mastercard/Visa would use ~2W.h per transaction, Bitcoin about 1MW.h.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#37
Someone created Bitcoin. It was a neat idea and people played with it. When the first pizza was bought with Bitcoin, I wonder how the creator felt? "Oh cool, real world use!"

Then Bitcoin bubbled. People panicked and jumped on board without researching, Bitcoin went up a bazillion %. I wonder how the creator felt? "Oh wow... Lots of people want this!"

Then the bubble burst, price went down, people got mad, but, most importantly, Bitcoin inspired others. I wonder how the creator felt? "Oh huh... This is really changing the world..."

Now, the problems are rearing their heads. Energy consumption, 51% attacks, scalability issues, etc. I wonder how the creator feels? "Oh dear..."

[ this is, of course, assuming the creator is still alive ]

It just boggles my mind that this weird internet currency exposed something so powerful in society: The intense desire for personal wealth that one truly owns.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#39
post #2

This is not a bug, it's a feature.

It is a feature yes but that makes this technology very inefficient to process transactions.

Without this "feature" it would be trivial to double-spend transactions. The entire concept of Nakamoto consensus (upon which Bitcoin security rides) relies upon provable waste of electricity to a degree that the average transaction is impossible (or at least financially unviable) to reverse within some widely accepted timespan.

And yes, this implicitly makes Bitcoin a bad idea, as well as blockchain in general.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#40
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoins energy consumption has no correlation with its transaction throughput. Price goes up > People turn on more miners > Difficulty goes up > Less efficient miners become unprofitable > People turn off more miners > Difficulty goes down. It's a self-correcting dynamic purely due to economics, not linked to usage.

So ever since Bitcoin's creation, it has been using the exact same amount of power? Because the transaction throughput surely has changed. Do you not agree that, loosely, there is a correlation between transaction throughput/ popularity/ real world usage, and the amount of people being happy to invest time, effort, and money into mining?

Throughput increased (from 0), since people started using it. But the maximum throughput cannot increase without protocol changes. There are workarounds like lightning network, but that's off the main blockchain. There's a hard limit on how many transactions you can put in one block. More mining power doesn't change that maximum.
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