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Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

bbc.com

11–20 of 127 posts

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#11
post #2

This is not a bug, it's a feature.

It is a feature yes but that makes this technology very inefficient to process transactions.

Bitcoins energy consumption has no correlation with its transaction throughput.

Price goes up > People turn on more miners > Difficulty goes up > Less efficient miners become unprofitable > People turn off more miners > Difficulty goes down.

It's a self-correcting dynamic purely due to economics, not linked to usage.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#12

The sensationalism ignores that this tends to be trapped pockets of otherwise wasted surplus energy. Bitcoin creates a global energy arbitrage market for the first time. Energy can't be transported long distance, but it can be used to mine bitcoin. The benefits here are massive, including incentivizing cheap green energy, or the use of mining for ambient heating.

Or encouraging cheap and nasty fuels to be used to an even greater extent.

I'm pretty sure miners don't pick and choose when they mine, to coincide when there's going to be 'wasted surplus energy' otherwise. They just add on to the demand on the grid, around the clock.

They almost sound like Buddhist monks re: meat eating, from the way you phrase things!

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#13
post #6

Does this energy consumption come more from mining (i.e. finding the new bitcoins) or from transactions? If the former, then the Bitcoin network should find a way to reward nodes for transactions in a more environmentally-friendly manner since mining should (in my understanding) disappear or become insignificant at some point.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#15

The sensationalism ignores that this tends to be trapped pockets of otherwise wasted surplus energy. Bitcoin creates a global energy arbitrage market for the first time. Energy can't be transported long distance, but it can be used to mine bitcoin. The benefits here are massive, including incentivizing cheap green energy, or the use of mining for ambient heating.

> otherwise wasted surplus energy

This makes sense only in two cases: you're using energy from power sources which can't regulate output, or you're adjusting usage immediately based on feedback from the source. Otherwise the generation side just raises, accounting for your usage. Does that actually happen anywhere?

> Energy can't be transported long distance

Of course it can be. I expect you're quite far from a power plant right now. On the extreme we've got high voltage lines going over 2000km.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#16
post #6

Does this energy consumption come more from mining (i.e. finding the new bitcoins) or from transactions? If the former, then the Bitcoin network should find a way to reward nodes for transactions in a more environmentally-friendly manner since mining should (in my understanding) disappear or become insignificant at some point.

It's both at the same time. "Mining" is just a fancy word for securing transactions. The new bitcoins are a reward for doing the securing, along with the transaction fees. Over time, securing transactions will yield less new bitcoins but will still keep yielding transaction fees.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#17

The sensationalism ignores that this tends to be trapped pockets of otherwise wasted surplus energy. Bitcoin creates a global energy arbitrage market for the first time. Energy can't be transported long distance, but it can be used to mine bitcoin. The benefits here are massive, including incentivizing cheap green energy, or the use of mining for ambient heating.

"Energy can't be transported long distance" -- Electric power is regularly transported long distances with low loss. Total transmission losses in the US are about 5%, and a lot of power is shipped 1000 km or more.

"Bitcoin creates a global energy arbitrage market for the first time" -- There are existing energy arbitrage technologies, such as aluminum smelting. The requirement is low capital cost with high energy cost, so you can have plants that are idle most of the time, waiting for low marginal-cost energy. Bitcoin mining isn't actually very good for this: the capital costs of rapidly depreciating mining chips are quite high.

"Incentivizing cheap green energy" -- every consumer of energy does this. Consumers that run mainly during the day are much better at incentivizing wind and solar.

"Mining for ambient heating" -- also suffers from the problem that mining chips are too valuable to leave idle, so you can't place them in homes and only run them when it's cold.

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a feature yes but that makes this technology very inefficient to process transactions.

Bitcoins energy consumption has no correlation with its transaction throughput. Price goes up > People turn on more miners > Difficulty goes up > Less efficient miners become unprofitable > People turn off more miners > Difficulty goes down. It's a self-correcting dynamic purely due to economics, not linked to usage.

So ever since Bitcoin's creation, it has been using the exact same amount of power? Because the transaction throughput surely has changed.

Do you not agree that, loosely, there is a correlation between transaction throughput/ popularity/ real world usage, and the amount of people being happy to invest time, effort, and money into mining?

Re: Bitcoin's energy consumption 'equals that of Switzerland'

#20

Missing from all of the discussions about this is the fact that almost all of the electricity is purchased with the mining reward, which is temporary . It is cut in half every 4 years, and will eventually dwindle to nothing. The amount of electricity Bitcoin miners can afford to buy therefore will fall. Of course, until now that effect has been more than compensated by the increase in the Bitcoin price. But that cert…

No it doesn’t, assuming the mining tech improves via FPGA and ASIC, leading to more hashes per KWh. It’s very hard to predict the future ratio between hash rates and mining rewards.
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