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House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

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Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#51

Post by aNoob7000 »

kyrra wrote: post #46
aNoob7000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) and Know Your Customer (KYC). I'm going out on a limb to say that most tech companies have no idea what BSA or KYC means and the paperwork involved.

As someone who works for Google (opinions are my own) on the payments team, I disagree. :) Due to P2P, and disbursements we do for Play developers and AdSense, we are heavily invested in KYC. And we have to comply with the regulations of all countries we do business in, not just the US.

Just curious, do you have to deal with OFAC controls?

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#52

Post by aNoob7000 »

_kmrr wrote: post #37
aNoob7000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) and Know Your Customer (KYC). I'm going out on a limb to say that most tech companies have no idea what BSA or KYC means and the paperwork involved.

Facebook already knows more about you than KYC requires. That said, according to Forbes ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2019/06/30/the-r... ), they'll comply with KYC/AML. I can't find a statement direct from Facebook on that, though.

Facebook only knows what I put into my Facebook registration form. Did they verify anything? No. Email me for government identification? No.

Can Facebook comply with KYC/AML type regulations? Yes. But that I'm aware of, they currently don't do anything of the sort with all their users.

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#53

Post by Sargos »

maxaf wrote: post #14
higginsc wrote: post #5

>“Because Facebook is already in the hands of over a quarter of the world’s population, it is imperative that Facebook and its partners immediately cease implementation plans until regulators and Congress have an opportunity to examine these risks and take action,” the letter says. We're scared that you have the ability to disintermediate our control of the financial system just like you did to publishers.

Forced to choose between Facebook and a government controlling anything, I'd rather have the government at the wheel. For me this is a "devil I know" type of thing.

Thankfully there's a third option of society itself controlling everything. This post is talking about whether government or Facebook controlling money but the third decentralized option of cryptocurrency is far more appealing to me.

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#54

Post by ksdale »

zepto wrote: post #30
ksdale wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m probably reading too much into your comment, but there’s a big difference between “a” government and “the” government depending on where you live. I don’t trust Facebook at all, but I trust them more than I trust certain governments around the world. At least they don’t have a military. Sometimes assholes without guns are better to have in charge than anyone with guns.

Facebook is just as much protected by people with guns as any government.

I don't think I'd hold the position I do if protecting was all that the guns were used for.

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#55

Post by anchpop »

luckydata wrote: post #21

This is not surprising. The minute Libra starts operating it becomes the main money laundering tool in the world. Depending on how it's implemented it could easily topple the economies of smaller countries, and significantly increase funding for terrorist organizations and garden variety criminals. I don't see how any government, and especially the US government, agrees to any of that anytime soon.

What does libra do for money laundering that other currencies like zcash and nano don't already do much better?

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#56

Post by aNoob7000 »

ckastner wrote: post #38
hjk05 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might depend on what you consider a “regular bank” but every bank and exchange I’ve ever come into contact with requires documentation and vetting to ensure that I am who I say I am and that I’m not not laundering money, and if the police come with a warrant they get everything they ask for. I think you might be thinking of specific banks and shell company schemes in Panama and not what most people would describ…

> and if the police come with a warrant they get everything they ask for. Banks requiring warrants is exactly my point. The Libra text makes no mention of any safeguards with regards to law enforcement. On the contrary.

Actually, a bank is obligated to report suspicious activity, no warrant is needed. If you walk into a bank in the USA and deposit irregular amounts of money or a large sum of cash, they can and will report you to the Treasury and banking regulators.

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#57

Post by bradstewart »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #52
_kmrr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook already knows more about you than KYC requires. That said, according to Forbes ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2019/06/30/the-r... ), they'll comply with KYC/AML. I can't find a statement direct from Facebook on that, though.

Facebook only knows what I put into my Facebook registration form. Did they verify anything? No. Email me for government identification? No. Can Facebook comply with KYC/AML type regulations? Yes. But that I'm aware of, they currently don't do anything of the sort with all their users.

They know what you put in the registration form, every device and IP address you've ever used, who your friends are, who you parents are, who your coworkers are, what websites you visit, what stores you shop at, who you're likely to vote for, and a whole lot more.

I think they can verify my identity without a copy of my driver license.

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#58

Post by darkwizard42 »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #17

Think of how much personal data Facebook could gather on you if it knows 'EVERYTHING' you purchase or at least a huge part of what you purchase. They've already been busted selling personal data under the radar to third parties. It's less 'omg control of the financial system' and more 'you're not exactly the exemplar of trust with peoples personal data' I'm all for crypto making the lame financial system we currently…

Please read the Libra whitepapers and organizational notes. You don't need a Facebook account to use it and they wouldn't have control of the personal data on your spending...

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#59

Post by dsfyu404ed »

whateveracct wrote: post #34
crazygringo wrote: post #6

This gets it all wrong, IMHO. An "official ask" rather than actual laws or regulations comes across as silly, self-serving and grandstanding -- although it is in Facebook's self-interest to work with Congress. The problem here is the potential for uncompetitive dominance -- just like Google or Apple can unfairly favor their own products in Search or apps, what does it mean for Facebook to favor or only allow its own…

> An "official ask" rather than actual laws or regulations comes across as silly, self-serving and grandstanding Libra was announced extremely recently. Do you really expect lawmakers to push laws or regulations through the system that fast? Surely not. If anything, an "official ask" like this is one of Congress' many tools.

>Do you really expect lawmakers to push laws or regulations through the system that fast? Surely not.

The GP's expectation aside, I don't want the government to be able to make laws that quickly. Knee jerk laws rarely work well.

Re: House lawmakers ask Facebook to put Libra cryptocurrency project on hold

#60

Post by bradstewart »

anchpop wrote: post #55
luckydata wrote: post #21

This is not surprising. The minute Libra starts operating it becomes the main money laundering tool in the world. Depending on how it's implemented it could easily topple the economies of smaller countries, and significantly increase funding for terrorist organizations and garden variety criminals. I don't see how any government, and especially the US government, agrees to any of that anytime soon.

What does libra do for money laundering that other currencies like zcash and nano don't already do much better?

Guessing here, but potentially allow you to actually mix fraudulent funds into real (or seemingly real) transactions? Assuming people actual use Libra to buy stuff. To use a Breaking Bad example, the car wash cashier says 100 people paid $30 each for a car wash (and generates receipts for those) when only 10 cars actually showed up.

Zcash is great for anonymously moving money, but you can still trace the inputs and outputs since you ultimately need fiat to buy weapons and such.

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