I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy • Hacker News Board

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#141

Post by friedegg » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #135

beatgammit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately and unfortunately, I nearly always travel with one or more young kids, which means I can't realistically do stuff like this that'll delay things (they have small bladders, little patience, and are curious). However, they usually have me go through the metal detector instead of the backscatter machine, so I tend to avoid that part of it. Before our last trip, I read about the facial ID thing, and I was wor…

> I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it. Indeed. What makes us safer are 2 things: 1. Secured cockpit doors 2. Passengers Now, if someone tried doing something bad/unsafe/terrorist, everybody would jump them, and stop them from doing the thing. That's how shoe-guy was stoppe…

On #2, I think people may forget that prior to 9/11, the idea was to let the hijacker go where they wanted, as the passengers usually ended up safe due to cooperation. Even on the day of 9/11 itself, once passengers realized cooperating was going to get them killed, then fighting back gave them a higher chance of survival.

The 2016 Brussels bombing did involve explosives in the check-in area of the airport.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#142

Post by Skunkleton » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

Of all of the problematic uses of facial recognition, this isn't one. You are already in a context where your identification must be verified. Who cares if they establish that identity with a precanned passport image? It isn't like there is any new data available here.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#143

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

tdxcbkifxx wrote: post #80

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this is a very personal thing, but I've never had a problem with this. So what if they see me naked? I don't care. There's nothing harmful that can come from that information.

What's your opinion on deepnude?

[deleted]

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#144

Post by mratzloff » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

Kamshak wrote: post #52

Tepix wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They show you naked and invade your privacy

And have not been used in the US for 6 years (from the wikipedia article linked above) > In the United States, the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 required that all full-body scanners operated in airports by the Transportation Security Administration use "Automated Target Recognition" software, which replaces the picture of a nude body with the cartoon-like representation.[3] As a result of this law, all bac…

Yep. I refused the backscatter scanner when they first came out because of radiation and nude scans, but now that they've changed that I think it's fine.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#145

Post by Wowfunhappy » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

tdxcbkifxx wrote: post #80

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this is a very personal thing, but I've never had a problem with this. So what if they see me naked? I don't care. There's nothing harmful that can come from that information.

What's your opinion on deepnude?

Revenge porn is terrible, but I don't think that's relevant here. Can you think of a plausible scenario where a backscatter machine's data could be used against someone? They didn't save your face; I don't know what someone would look at. And that's if the machines actually saved any data, which was not supposed to happen.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#146

Post by godelski » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

saltminer wrote: post #95

beatgammit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately and unfortunately, I nearly always travel with one or more young kids, which means I can't realistically do stuff like this that'll delay things (they have small bladders, little patience, and are curious). However, they usually have me go through the metal detector instead of the backscatter machine, so I tend to avoid that part of it. Before our last trip, I read about the facial ID thing, and I was wor…

> I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it. Because people don't feel like they can make any real impact, and for those who can (our representatives), it's political suicide. The TSA is a giant waste of money but turning the front line of security back to airports would extreme…

Slight derail

> Because people don't feel like they can make any real impact

I'd say this generalization applies to a lot of topics that we're having with democracy. That people don't feel that it's democratic. I think there's this weird feeling where most believe we're both in a democracy and autocracy (which may not be untrue, but the less we try to fix it with democracy the harder we'll leave to autocracy)

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#147

Post by dijit » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

dalore wrote: post #65

UweSchmidt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going against implicit expectations of others and being the only one who does something is maybe the hardest thing humans can do. Opting out could risk holding up the boarding process, possibly missing the flight, unpleasant treatment by security and being pitted against the other passengers - all of it to opt out of something is clearly a dark pattern. All of this is very well understood by the people who designed t…

Yes I asked if I could get a pat down instead of the backscatter x-ray at Heathrow. Was made to feel like a criminal, questioned etc and put under pressure. And then to be told I don't have to get scanned but I can't get on my flight unless I do. There wasn't even an opt out.

Similar story, and I’m going to go ahead and assume that the reason you wouldn’t be able to board was due to the flight departing very soon.

I _always_ opt out of backscatter machines. I’m British so I’ve flown Heathrow and Gatwick and Luton (etc), normally the process is painless. I wait a fair while longer than others, sitting/standing publicly as people pass me by and it feels awkward, but not enough to stop me.

I have never been denied boarding for my choice. But I make sure I have time to be harassed. Just in case.

The pat down is very humane, they tell you what they will do and they use the back of their hands a fair bit.

Then they brush the glove and put the cloth they brushed with in a scanner, then you’re free to go.

However, I’ve been to a couple of airports that have... aggressive.. security. Heathrow was one, they made me feel so small, as if I was causing trouble, implying I was hiding something.

Eventually I told them that I worked on the backscatter x-rays, and claimed that while they were safe for normal use, they were not safe for use with the added radiation of flying and that the world would be defaming it in a decade as, I said it was this generations asbestos.

They stopped pestering me then, since that incident it’s been my go-to response.

It’s not true as far as I know, but, it /is/ an added dose of radiation right before you get some more radiation, so it’s not exactly a complete fabrication.

Now they’re using millimetre wave scanners which are less radioactive, but have other considerations like the activation of moles on skin, or their relative ineffectiveness of finding handguns in underwear (as per TSA reporting) or 54% false positive rate (as per Germany’s report)

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#148

Post by doctorRetro » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

"I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy"

"I had to ... speak with a Delta representative at their information desk ... then request a passport scan when it was my turn to board."

That sounds relatively easy, actually.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#149

Post by femto113 » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 5:59 PM UTC

aurbano wrote: post #19

pelario wrote: post #3

Very click-baity. Below the only part that actually relates to the title: The announcement came as we began to board. Last month, I was at Detroit’s Metro Airport for a connecting flight to Southeast Asia. I listened as a Delta Air Lines staff member informed passengers that the boarding process would use facial recognition instead of passport scanners. As a privacy-conscious person, I was uncomfortable boarding this…

Agreed. What is the privacy concern of allowing face recognition if you are letting them scan your passport?

The distinction is nonsensical to me from a privacy standpoint. Your passport includes a picture of your face, anyone scanning your passport looks at that picture and your face to verify the passport is "you". I'm sure whatever is recorded by either process is essentially the same: a person with your face was in a particular place at a particular time.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#150

Post by vokep » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 6:02 PM UTC

RandallBrown wrote: post #136

dractori wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radiation exposure is cumulative. It's a small increase in your risk of developing cancer but it's not zero.

Millimeter wave scanners pose essentially no risk of cancer since they're non-ionizing.

non-ionizing means mostly harmless, but there is no guarantee. Proteins come in lots of shapes and sizes, and non-ionizing radiation can still resonate.