I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy • Hacker News Board

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#111

Post by jshowa3 » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

dalore wrote: post #65

UweSchmidt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going against implicit expectations of others and being the only one who does something is maybe the hardest thing humans can do. Opting out could risk holding up the boarding process, possibly missing the flight, unpleasant treatment by security and being pitted against the other passengers - all of it to opt out of something is clearly a dark pattern. All of this is very well understood by the people who designed t…

Yes I asked if I could get a pat down instead of the backscatter x-ray at Heathrow. Was made to feel like a criminal, questioned etc and put under pressure. And then to be told I don't have to get scanned but I can't get on my flight unless I do. There wasn't even an opt out.

X-ray data isn't as identifying as facial recognition. And quite honestly, you're so concerned about this, you've already lost the war since everywhere you walk, you're bound to be caught by a camera.

You need real legislation to fix this problem.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#112

Post by thedaemon » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

tdxcbkifxx wrote: post #80

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this is a very personal thing, but I've never had a problem with this. So what if they see me naked? I don't care. There's nothing harmful that can come from that information.

What's your opinion on deepnude?

I created fake nudes in high school about 20 years ago... It's always been on the table for an artist to fake them, the only difference in that and deep nudes are that a computer does them. Why is it just now bothering people? Because of the buzz word of deepnude?

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#113

Post by Vrondi » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

kowdermeister wrote: post #27

> Will we only wake up once we no longer have the choice to opt out? yes :/ Many commenters say that your data / picture is in the system already, which is fine, but your passport photo can be 10 - 15 years old and these systems record how you look now. That's the question if you are comfortable providing it. What you can't do anything about is CCTV and I think it's a safe bet that they are already equipped with faci…

Your only way to avoid being scanned for facial recognition is to never enter public spaces like airports. Perhaps to never leave your home.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#114

Post by pmoriarty » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

codyb wrote: post #85

userbinator wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they were also very surprised, because most people would rather not be touched by a stranger.

Huh, I do it every time. Never behind a privacy screen. Never bothered me at all. The only shitty part is when agents let your stuff go through the scanners but you’re stuck behind the machines. I’m always trying to crane my neck to make sure no one walks off with a laptop. Usually the TSA agents are very nice. I ask them about their days, how things are, and then I’m on my way. I like to exercise my rights just to m…

The sad thing is that even if you're not in the machine, the machine can still scan you -- as long as you're within a certain distance of it.

When the machines first started being used there was some expose on them where pics from the machine were leaked, and you could clearly see that even people waiting in line within about 10 feet of the machine or so were scanned, and you can clearly see their bodies appear in the images, just as you can those who were in the machine itself.

Now, being scanned outside of the machine probably doesn't give them as good an image as outside of the machine, and they won't get an image of both sides of your body, but nevertheless your body will be covered to some extent with radiation from the machine.

I've always opted out of the machines at the airport, and they've always made me wait in a chair within 10 feet or so of the machine. So I know I'm getting some radiation dose from it, but really don't know what to do about it.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#115

Post by dwighttk » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

pelario wrote: post #3

Very click-baity. Below the only part that actually relates to the title: The announcement came as we began to board. Last month, I was at Detroit’s Metro Airport for a connecting flight to Southeast Asia. I listened as a Delta Air Lines staff member informed passengers that the boarding process would use facial recognition instead of passport scanners. As a privacy-conscious person, I was uncomfortable boarding this…

even for a clickbait headline, "It Wasn't Easy" seems overkill.

I opt out of the body scan every time and it sounds like the face scan is easier.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#116

Post by dmonagha » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

codyb wrote: post #85

userbinator wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they were also very surprised, because most people would rather not be touched by a stranger.

Huh, I do it every time. Never behind a privacy screen. Never bothered me at all. The only shitty part is when agents let your stuff go through the scanners but you’re stuck behind the machines. I’m always trying to crane my neck to make sure no one walks off with a laptop. Usually the TSA agents are very nice. I ask them about their days, how things are, and then I’m on my way. I like to exercise my rights just to m…

We are cut from the same cloth as I do exactly the same for the exact same reasons. I've 'trained' many a new TSA agent only because I assume it doesn't happen much. I would say half the time I opt out I am used to train a new agent.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#117

Post by tyingq » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 3:05 PM UTC

pelario wrote: post #3

Very click-baity. Below the only part that actually relates to the title: The announcement came as we began to board. Last month, I was at Detroit’s Metro Airport for a connecting flight to Southeast Asia. I listened as a Delta Air Lines staff member informed passengers that the boarding process would use facial recognition instead of passport scanners. As a privacy-conscious person, I was uncomfortable boarding this…

I don't see anything click baity. It was, indeed, not easy to opt out. And this is for someone that knew they could.

" To figure out how to do so, I had to leave the boarding line, speak with a Delta representative at their information desk, get back in line, then request a passport scan when it was my turn to board"

That is a process that is not easily discoverable. And the "opt out" isn't announced as an something that even exists.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#118

Post by edwintorok » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 3:14 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #96

beatgammit wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what do they take a picture of, your passport or you?

You scan your passport, lean in for a picture of your face, and hand a receipt to a person on your way out.

Yes, except instead of a receipt the gate just opened and I went through.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#119

Post by asark » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

cowwithbeef wrote: post #72

cddotdotslash wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Naked" is a real stretch. It's basically a black and white, lumpy x-ray viewed from a remote control room.

Would Obama, Trump, and their wives be happy to have their scans available for public viewing? If it's obvious they wouldn't, it should be obvious it's an invasion of privacy.

For me, I'm already iffy about the whole thing when it's just me but the thought of putting my kids in one of these things makes me... very unhappy, in a bunch of different ways at once. But so does a stranger feeling them up. I'm not sure how/whether I'll ever be able to fly with them.

Some posters are claiming the screens don't show the raw images anymore, but what happens to those scans? Betting they don't discard them. Ever.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#120

Post by thatcat » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 3:42 PM UTC

mikepurvis wrote: post #101

saltminer wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it. Because people don't feel like they can make any real impact, and for those who can (our representatives), it's political suicide. The TSA is a giant waste of money but turning the front line of security back to airports would extreme…

Are there regular studies examining broader public opinion on this? I have to assume that at some point it is going to shift, and suddenly scaling back (or privatizing) airport screening will be a no-brainer.

The problem is that it only takes some passive support to establish the system initially, but removing it takes the majority of people actively complaining.