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I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

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Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#101

Post by mikepurvis »

saltminer wrote: post #95
beatgammit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately and unfortunately, I nearly always travel with one or more young kids, which means I can't realistically do stuff like this that'll delay things (they have small bladders, little patience, and are curious). However, they usually have me go through the metal detector instead of the backscatter machine, so I tend to avoid that part of it. Before our last trip, I read about the facial ID thing, and I was wor…

> I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it. Because people don't feel like they can make any real impact, and for those who can (our representatives), it's political suicide. The TSA is a giant waste of money but turning the front line of security back to airports would extreme…

Are there regular studies examining broader public opinion on this? I have to assume that at some point it is going to shift, and suddenly scaling back (or privatizing) airport screening will be a no-brainer.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#102

Post by sirkneeland »

scottlocklin wrote: post #94
simond_d wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you've said here would make me want to go back to 1996 and take a flight, granddad.

I guess animals often grow to enjoy their cages; had a pal who kinda freaked out when he got out of the pokey too. Oh yeah: no body cavity searches getting past the gate, we had legroom, free food on the plane, free baggage, and they didn't blare CNN in the airports like some Orwell dystopia, or ads for the airline on the airplane telescreen. The planes were better too; 747 was super common and comfy (now you need to…

Is it comically cheap if you don't consider inflation?

Because while air travel has undoubtedly gotten less comfortable, in most (if not all?) cases it's also gotten cheaper. With every passing decade air travel because accessible to broader and broader swaths of the economic pyramid. Now it's at the point where the cost of the taxi to a London airport can cost more than the airfare of whatever budget airline flight I'd be on.

I am [not really] too young to have flown on the Concorde, but a Googling of "Concorde flight cost" suggested between $6000 and $12000 round trip for NYC-LON flights. That doesn't strike me as cheap.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#103

Post by samirm »

kbos87 wrote: post #55

“Until we have evidence that facial recognition is accurate and reliable—as opposed to simply convenient—travelers should avoid the technology where they can.” No, no, no! The possibility that this technology may occasionally be wrong pales in comparison to the world we’re marching toward. By far the biggest risk facing society is that having your every move tracked by governments will soon be next to impossible. Als…

This is a very confusing comment. You seem to disagree with the premise of the article, but then go on to agree with it, but also make a bizarre statement about the impossibility of governments being able to track you?

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#104

Post by larrik »

samirm wrote: post #103
kbos87 wrote: post #55

“Until we have evidence that facial recognition is accurate and reliable—as opposed to simply convenient—travelers should avoid the technology where they can.” No, no, no! The possibility that this technology may occasionally be wrong pales in comparison to the world we’re marching toward. By far the biggest risk facing society is that having your every move tracked by governments will soon be next to impossible. Als…

This is a very confusing comment. You seem to disagree with the premise of the article, but then go on to agree with it, but also make a bizarre statement about the impossibility of governments being able to track you?

I'm pretty sure there's a typo in there somewhere.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#105

Post by fuzzyset »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #16

I don't understand the problem here. How does the facial recognition system work? I'm thinking that biometric passports contain the necessary data and that the airline has already got then by scanning the passport at some point so that it quick and easy to use facial recognition at boarding time. If so, it's pointless to request to opt out while boarding, really. In any case, there is no anonymity in air travel (this…

I think most are looking at this backwards. This system is most likely the reCaptcha of facial recognition. The same way Google already knows you're not a robot, and they just use you to improve their image recognition algos. The facial recognition at the airport is one of the few ways to get multiple pictures of people while knowing with near 100% certainty the face matches the name. The system is building out their data set. Running facial recognition in other scenarios (e.g. security footage after a crime) off a single passport photo is hard. Running facial recognition off of a data set with many different photos is much better.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#106

Post by xfitm3 »

jen729w wrote: post #34
mb_72 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What airport is this? At Adelaide airport arrivals I always choose to go through the manual processing queue, i.e. the one non-Australian citizens have to use. Half the time it's faster than the smart-gate system queue, and even if it's not an extra 10 minutes after 26hrs + of traveling isn't going to kill me. As for departures, it wasn't obvious to me - like with you - that I could opt-out. I'll give it a shot next…

I use the ‘smart’ gates at Melbourne regularly. You insert your passport, stand in front of a camera, and one assumes that your current photograph is compared to that of your passport. If they’re the same, you pass. I fail to see the privacy implications. I’m already giving someone my passport details – I must do that to enter or exit the country. That passport already contains my photograph. What privacy am I losing…

Those single shot pictures track facial changes over time - and give additional data points for facial recognition.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#107

Post by dractori »

skribbj wrote: post #49
casefields wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_X-ray

What's the problem with these exactly?

Radiation exposure is cumulative. It's a small increase in your risk of developing cancer but it's not zero.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#108

Post by mti27 »

resonanttoe wrote: post #21
mytailorisrich wrote: post #16

I don't understand the problem here. How does the facial recognition system work? I'm thinking that biometric passports contain the necessary data and that the airline has already got then by scanning the passport at some point so that it quick and easy to use facial recognition at boarding time. If so, it's pointless to request to opt out while boarding, really. In any case, there is no anonymity in air travel (this…

The point this article misses entirely is that the Facial recognition system is now at the gate which is ostensibly Delta’s territory. It isn’t US Boarder Control running the facial control system, its Delta, Southwest, or anyone else, which has implications about the privacy of the biometric data, that up until this point hasn’t been collected by Airlines, only Boarder entities. That said, in order to boot strap thi…

> Delta’s territory This feels like the opposite of the GDPR stories from a few months ago. Instead of all the "It's coming" hype and opt in agreements, the company just gets the info without a fuss...

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#109

Post by mti27 »

master-litty wrote: post #39
dzhiurgis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clearly a dark pattern. It's not clear to me at all. Explain please.

A "dark pattern" tricks people into doing something they normally wouldn't do. In this case, to board your flight you may verify your identity in one of two ways: 1. Present your passport 2. Use the Facial Recognition software They are tricking people into using option 2 by not informing them of option 1.

Just like Disney World - they scan your finger print upon entry to the park. When you ask to opt out, they're like "Well you're going to need to step out of line over here and give my manager some information.."

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#110

Post by nimajneb »

rickycook wrote: post #41
chii wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this happens in smaller airports, but if the passport scanner is automated, they already take a picture of you.

they have a copy of a static image that they likely already have access to. very different to a high res alternate image, from a different angle, with a different expression, in different lighting

It's only static if they aren't using AI to analyze the tons of images they have of you from security cameras etc. Google Photos can learn and search for faces of a person based on one confirmed face a person. I'm sure Facebook can as well. There's no reason to believe the Government or TSA is or isn't doing this.
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