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I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

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Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#81
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I asked if I could get a pat down instead of the backscatter x-ray at Heathrow. Was made to feel like a criminal, questioned etc and put under pressure. And then to be told I don't have to get scanned but I can't get on my flight unless I do. There wasn't even an opt out.

I guess they were also very surprised, because most people would rather not be touched by a stranger.

I am stuck doing this for medical reasons, and it is certainly one of the most degrading experiences I have ever had the displeasure of enduring. It's very possible he's stuck doing it for similar reasons. Most machines in America aren't backscatter, but I still can't use them.

It's also a crapshoot - you may have an aggressive officer, or a friendly one. I've been patted down twice for absolutely no reason; not a second screening, the guy just went over me two times.

I keep wondering why we have chosen to sacrifice freedom for some small measure of security. More importantly, I don't really believe airport security stops much - it's security theater.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#82

Is it at all possible to have this feature work in a way that still protects privacy? Say, only store a non-reversible hash derived from facial features - that can be used to verify identity but not for facial recognition itself.

Definitely possible if standards are defined, but that is not the problem. The real one is that we now have a security industry that needs to apply tech to dangers that in reality don't really exist in the first place or are so minuscule that you need sales people to market these. The security hysteria of the last decade is laughable, if it didn't cost us that much... I seriously avoid flights. They already have my d…

>...to dangers that in reality don't really exist in the first place or are so minuscule that you need sales people to market these. The security hysteria of the last decade is laughable, if it didn't cost us that much...

I don't believe that this is true.

For example, the world wasn't a "safer" place to be in between 7 Dec 1941 and 11 Sep 2001, just as it's not a "safer" place now. The danger was ever-present, as the Munich Massacre (1972) clearly demonstrated (and the entire world witnessed).

Instead, what's happened is the ongoing implication that your safety is paramount and any concessions to privacy are an ultimately necessary byproduct to keep you safe from that "new" danger; however, it wasn't a "necessary evil" for the preceeding six (seven, including the oughts?)decades and the danger - certainly - ins't new, right?

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#83
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. What is the privacy concern of allowing face recognition if you are letting them scan your passport?

Maybe you don't want new data points on your face in a database.

There are already cameras everywhere though.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#84
A bit weak of an article. I absolutely hate how facial rec is going to be the norm in a lot of things outside security.

1. The infamous they, already have a picture of your face. Your id/passport. It's kind of too late to be anonymous when boarding a plane, for multiple reasons.

2. One agency has it, thus its easy for them to share it with others. HA! You, have never dealt with fed agencies. You want to meet the grownup versions of those toddlers that never learned to share their toys? Any fed agency. Doesn't matter how important the info is and how timely, "it's our data, our jurisdiction, we'll handle it".

Just two points that stood out to me.

Again, I agree that privacy now seems like a dream we had in the distant past due to tech companies and the results of a post-911 world. But this article is the equivalent to complaining how much sugar is in cake while eating said cake.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#85
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I asked if I could get a pat down instead of the backscatter x-ray at Heathrow. Was made to feel like a criminal, questioned etc and put under pressure. And then to be told I don't have to get scanned but I can't get on my flight unless I do. There wasn't even an opt out.

I guess they were also very surprised, because most people would rather not be touched by a stranger.

Huh, I do it every time. Never behind a privacy screen. Never bothered me at all.

The only shitty part is when agents let your stuff go through the scanners but you’re stuck behind the machines. I’m always trying to crane my neck to make sure no one walks off with a laptop.

Usually the TSA agents are very nice. I ask them about their days, how things are, and then I’m on my way.

I like to exercise my rights just to make sure they keep being available, and there’s not much better to do inside the airport anyways.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#86
Maybe we'll get to McLuhan's global electronic village after all.

Having come from a rural area, in a village it is just like in Cheers - "Everybody knows your name". They also know a lot about you, your family, friends and enemies. Much of what they know is true, but some of it is wrong (gossip).

Privacy and anonymity is of recent origin, starting with industrial development and large cities. It's a "security by obscurity" strategy for the more powerless segments of society. Powerful people are in the Social Register.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#87
I am usually opting-out of body scanners (in the EU its still optional). But at some airports the security people seem to not know that it's optional.

By now I always carry a letter from the federal police (responsible for border + airport security) explaining that it's optional.

At Berlins airports they usually ask for a reason why I opt-out of body scanners, which is ridiculous, as one needs no reason to NOT do something that's legally optional to do.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#88
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they were also very surprised, because most people would rather not be touched by a stranger.

Huh, I do it every time. Never behind a privacy screen. Never bothered me at all. The only shitty part is when agents let your stuff go through the scanners but you’re stuck behind the machines. I’m always trying to crane my neck to make sure no one walks off with a laptop. Usually the TSA agents are very nice. I ask them about their days, how things are, and then I’m on my way. I like to exercise my rights just to m…

Fortunately and unfortunately, I nearly always travel with one or more young kids, which means I can't realistically do stuff like this that'll delay things (they have small bladders, little patience, and are curious). However, they usually have me go through the metal detector instead of the backscatter machine, so I tend to avoid that part of it.

Before our last trip, I read about the facial ID thing, and I was worried because my passport was expired (we were traveling domestic). Fortunately, it seems neither of the airports we went through were implementing it yet, so I'll have time to renew before it's a thing.

I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#89
post #17

Peripherally related. I needed a new passport, and applied online for one. The online application kept rejecting my photo which I had taken by a pharmacy specifically approved for taking passport photos. It said that my eyes were too shaded or had too much shadow. I tried everything with levels and contrast. I gave up and started messing with the application software. I cut the eyes out a different photo in the Mac P…

Yeah, that probably invalidates your passport.

"Photos must not be digitally enhanced or altered to change your appearance in any way"

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-inf...

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clearly a dark pattern. It's not clear to me at all. Explain please.

Assuming you're not being facetious, the optional "have your facial scan data uploaded to dubious parties" choice is not presented as optional, and implied consent is the default for all fliers. This would be similar to an "opt-out" instead of "opt-in" checkbox on a "let us harvest your data" disclaimer, except that the checkbox is at 0% opacity so you don't know it's there.

Not to mention that you usually don't know about it until you get there, so you don't have time to look up anything about it to see whether you can avoid it. I read about it after buying my last ticket and learned about the passport thing, but that was because I'm interested in what the TSA does and follow security and privacy blogs.
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