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A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

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Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#131

Post by axelriet »

tiraniddo wrote: post #124
axelriet wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love that you point to an instance where the private symbols of the kernel actually shipped? It is very possible that some private symbols were part of some leak, but stolen data does not qualify as “shipping” :) Again, I stand behind my opinion. I eyeballed some of the code side-by-side and there was portions where I could literally see a line-by-line correlation, which I can hardly explain. Then if reversing th…

The private symbols have in the past ended up on the public symbol server (and quickly taken down), they have ending up "shipping" in public symbol packs. I can't point to specific incidents as the links to them no longer exist. This is why I said accidentally as they were not released as a conscious effort on MS's part. However you seem to want to claim the only place those symbols can come from is being stolen. Of…

That sounds reasonable (symbols inadvertently leaked). This would be a plausible explanation for at least some of the naming similarities.

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#132

Post by jacobush »

gattilorenz wrote: post #81
wildfire wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, of course, makes it perfectly acceptable?

No, but if Microsoft asked for wav files, and a contractor delivered them, is Microsoft at fault if the contractor used a pirated editing software?

Liable? I hope so. And then they can pass the buck on.

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#133

Post by rayiner »

nordsieck wrote: post #57
geofft wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really clean-room, though? (Note that "clean-room" is not a term in US copyright law, it's just a technique that certain people hope results in a work that is not a derivative of whatever they're reimplementing.) If I learn a pop song, and sing it and accompany myself on the piano, and someone else transcribes it, then two things are true: first, of course it will result in identical melodies and chord progre…

>> From what I understand a lot of the kernel work was done by clean-room reverse engineering. One person decompiles and documents the system and another re-implements given the documentation. > Is that really clean-room, though? That is precisely the technique that Compaq used to reverse engineer the IBM PC BIOS. I'm sure it can be done in a legally risky way, but the fundamental technique has been quite well tested…

I don’t remember the details of the BIOS case. A BIOS responds kind of like hardware. You put values in a register, trigger an interrupt, and look at the result in another register. As I recall, the clean room implementation replicated the same behavior, which is permitted. But documenting the actual structure of the code, including variable names, and copying that is not clean room reverse engineering from the point of view of copyright law.

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#134

Post by _qxjp »

RachelF wrote: post #30
dejaime wrote: post #21

What goes around, comes around. Stealing code is on Microsoft records, as a simple "Microsoft admits stealing code" search shows. One can only wonder how much code the company stole that did not come to public knowledge. https://www.computerworld.com/article/2522017/microsoft-admi...

Also many of the .wav files in Windows 98SE were edited with a pirated version of Sony's Soundforge, the metadata in the media files contained the Soundforge cracker's name.

As far as I could research, I only found articles about Windows XP. Close enough. https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/pirated-software-used-to-crea...

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#135

Post by gattilorenz »

jacobush wrote: post #132
gattilorenz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but if Microsoft asked for wav files, and a contractor delivered them, is Microsoft at fault if the contractor used a pirated editing software?

Liable? I hope so. And then they can pass the buck on.

Why would Microsoft be liable?

Do you check if your butcher has illegally bought his knife? Should you be liable, if so?

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#136

Post by jacobush »

gattilorenz wrote: post #135
jacobush wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liable? I hope so. And then they can pass the buck on.

Why would Microsoft be liable? Do you check if your butcher has illegally bought his knife? Should you be liable, if so?

Hmm... you may be right. But on the other hand, is the steak licensed and copyrighted?

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#137

Post by gattilorenz »

jacobush wrote: post #136
gattilorenz wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Microsoft be liable? Do you check if your butcher has illegally bought his knife? Should you be liable, if so?

Hmm... you may be right. But on the other hand, is the steak licensed and copyrighted?

It's not, but metaphors and analogies only go so far :)

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#138

Post by littlestymaar »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #71
bubblethink wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>baseless defamation of ReactOS ("like a baby mosquito on the back of an giant elephant") If only he had called it a cancer. That seems to work well generally.

The infamous "cancer" analogy was referring to the copyleft-licensing, not the actual system per se . Saying ReactOS infringes 200+ Microsoft patents and threatening for lawsuits to developers and all users is a more effective FUD approach to me, and may even be factually true. The entire project of Linux kernel was running under this threat for 10+ years until ~2005 (?) when an agreement was established.

AFAIK Software patents aren't enforceable outside of the US+Japan though.

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#139

Post by zzzzzzzzzzz »

axelriet wrote: post #131
tiraniddo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The private symbols have in the past ended up on the public symbol server (and quickly taken down), they have ending up "shipping" in public symbol packs. I can't point to specific incidents as the links to them no longer exist. This is why I said accidentally as they were not released as a conscious effort on MS's part. However you seem to want to claim the only place those symbols can come from is being stolen. Of…

That sounds reasonable (symbols inadvertently leaked). This would be a plausible explanation for at least some of the naming similarities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D9ExVc0G10&t=9m53s

Re: A Kernel Engineer at Microsoft's Answer to “What Do You Think about ReactOS?”

#140

Post by toyg »

Uptrenda wrote: post #126

I appreciate the insider perspective (though I am definitely not qualified to assess these claims.) Unfortunately, it might be hard to prove these claims either way since it sounds like they have plenty of plausible deniability to fall back on. What I will say is: I hope Axel's post doesn't negatively effect his career. We've all seen how controversial opinions and politically incorrect behavior have ended peoples em…

Axel is a windows kernel developer, he has his pick of the job market. Microsoft alone is probably happy to cover him in dobloons just to stick around.
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