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Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

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Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#61

Post by gdubs »

anon_z88 wrote: post #53
hkyeti wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just politicians. And still citizens do nothing. Meat consumption is rising (one of the best things we can do personally is stop eating meat and dairy). Travel is increasing. Consumption...

Why is not eating meat/dairy "one of the best things we can do personally"?

Because land-use change is a leading cause of climate change, and most land-use change is happening to grow and harvest animals. Add on top of that the monoculture crops are also largely grown to feed animals, and those monocultures also drive climate change.

Eating a plant based diet is great, but even switching to locally raised, pasture grown animals can be a positive. But ultimately pastures need to be re-wilded into natural forests. Beef needs to become an expensive luxury and not a dietary staple.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#62

Post by adrianN »

anon_z88 wrote: post #53
hkyeti wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just politicians. And still citizens do nothing. Meat consumption is rising (one of the best things we can do personally is stop eating meat and dairy). Travel is increasing. Consumption...

Why is not eating meat/dairy "one of the best things we can do personally"?

Producing meat consumes a lot of resources. Especially if its beef.

https://i.imgur.com/JAMsYHk.gif

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#63

Post by anonuser123456 »

mrpopo wrote: post #42
kenpomeroy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even still, you're assuming the government has the ability to address climate change if given the chance. But, there would need to be global consensus and enforcement or government intervention could actually make the problem worse (e.g. heavy environmental regulatory burden means products get manufactured and shipped from Asia, and actually generate more carbon emissions). Perhaps, free market solutions a la Tesla a…

> Perhaps, free market solutions a la Tesla are all we've got? Tesla is still promoting the idea of the individual car, and that electric cars could replace the ICE car for each and every travel that it is used currently. If Tesla is the free market solution, then be prepared to pay the bill for climate change.

Maybe battery tech will continue to be exponential? Seems like there is still a lot of room at the bottom.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#64

Post by anonuser123456 »

chewz wrote: post #24
belorn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at ( https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2207/economics/carbon-tax... ) the primary argument against Carbon tax is that companies will somehow tax evade even more than in the past, and companies will move to more tax friendly companies than they already do. Is there an argument against carbon tax that can't be said by any other tax?

The objective of carbon tax is to give incentives to market participants and let the market to the job. In my opinion it will result in creating huge wealth transfers with much real benefit to the climate. I would rather side with Naomi Klein that capitalism proved ineffective in solving problems of this scale.

So decide by fiat it doesn't work rather than run the experiment?

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#65

Post by kenpomeroy »

mrpopo wrote: post #42
kenpomeroy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even still, you're assuming the government has the ability to address climate change if given the chance. But, there would need to be global consensus and enforcement or government intervention could actually make the problem worse (e.g. heavy environmental regulatory burden means products get manufactured and shipped from Asia, and actually generate more carbon emissions). Perhaps, free market solutions a la Tesla a…

> Perhaps, free market solutions a la Tesla are all we've got? Tesla is still promoting the idea of the individual car, and that electric cars could replace the ICE car for each and every travel that it is used currently. If Tesla is the free market solution, then be prepared to pay the bill for climate change.

I said Tesla was perhaps "a" solution, not "the" solution. What alternative solutions do you propose?

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#66

Post by kenpomeroy »

nwah1 wrote: post #59
kenpomeroy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even still, you're assuming the government has the ability to address climate change if given the chance. But, there would need to be global consensus and enforcement or government intervention could actually make the problem worse (e.g. heavy environmental regulatory burden means products get manufactured and shipped from Asia, and actually generate more carbon emissions). Perhaps, free market solutions a la Tesla a…

Tesla has benefitted quite a lot from government subsidies and regulations specifically aimed at encouraging companies like Tesla.

Fossil fuel companies receive subsidies as well, what's your point?

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#67

Post by lightgreen »

adrianN wrote: post #62
anon_z88 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is not eating meat/dairy "one of the best things we can do personally"?

Producing meat consumes a lot of resources. Especially if its beef. https://i.imgur.com/JAMsYHk.gif

Why constraint yourself voluntarily instead of simply paying co2 tax? If meat production hurts climate, let’s just make it expensive (not the meat itself, but the process which produces co2) and let free market work towards stopping climate change.

Maybe you don’t eat meat but instead buying something else which hurts climate 20 times more? Nobody knows.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#68

Post by mrpopo »

kenpomeroy wrote: post #65
mrpopo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps, free market solutions a la Tesla are all we've got? Tesla is still promoting the idea of the individual car, and that electric cars could replace the ICE car for each and every travel that it is used currently. If Tesla is the free market solution, then be prepared to pay the bill for climate change.

I said Tesla was perhaps "a" solution, not "the" solution. What alternative solutions do you propose?

Regarding transportation, it's in my comment. Put an end to the individual car and promote public transportation.

Replacing ICE cars with electric cars looks like it's better than nothing, but it's only gonna promote the business-as-usual mindset.

Today, even with limited electric car adoption, our energy consumption is growing faster than the production of electricity from renewables is growing. That means more energy from fossil fuels worldwide. We need to slow down until solutions are found.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#69

Post by Kaiyou »

homonculus1 wrote: post #57
Kaiyou wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it won't be earlier than in a few centuries.

What data does your suspicion derive from?

Because historians work on different time scales. Stuff from only a few decades ago is still politics, not history.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#70

Post by Kaiyou »

adrianN wrote: post #51
Kaiyou wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these doomsday messages! And they have zero impact on the quality of my life. I wonder why nobody cares. \s

The problem is that the climate will be fucked beyond repair when ordinary people in rich countries feel the impact on their quality of life. We need to act way before that point.

I'm not planning to stop you from acting. Do as you wish.
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