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Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

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Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#251

Post by thecount122195 »

Leary wrote: post #140
Tepix wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China signed the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This action almost certainly violates some of these rights (articles 18-21 come to mind: Articles 18–21 sanctioned the so-called "constitutional liberties", and with spiritual, public, and political freedoms, such as freedom of thought, opinion, religion and conscience, word, and peaceful association of the individual. )

When did China (PRC) sign the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Are you talking about the Republic of China?

They must be because the Chinese civil war was still ongoing when the declaration of human rights was voted on in 1948, and the PRC wasn't even seated in the UN until 1971.

Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#252

Post by scooke »

bovermyer wrote: post #4

The title is a little misleading, as it's a region of China and not the entirety. However, the implications are still ominous. I'm curious, how did China develop into such a police state? Anyone able to point me to some reading on the subject?

It’s almost always been like that. The surveillance 25 years ago were grannies and aunties on the first floor of buildings keeping track of who comes and goes. Gates were already installed at many living compounds, so the guards too could easily see who comes and goes. Read about the danwei system, which essentially monitored everyone’s movements and indeed life path from birth until death. Not as high tech as now, but the control and surveillance has always been there. This is probably why the escalation has occurred without too much fuss from the general populace.

Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#253

Post by QuercusMax »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #165
dirtyid wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Tibet still very much has Western imagination captured whereas Uyghar Muslims... do not. Even more cynical analysis, Xinjiang is fundamentally an exercise in reducing the real problem of Islamic radicalization and the non response from many countries (including Muslim ones) is that they are quietly observing to see if the experiment pays off. The danger of Xinjiang is that surveillance state + "vocational" re…

Xinjiang is also much larger population (21 million+) wise than Tibet (3 million+), along with the former having a much larger Han population, making restrictions much harder (and less appealing) to implement logistically.

I hope you mean population, not ovulation.

Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#254

Post by seanmcdirmid »

baybal2 wrote: post #246
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is flying narrow bodies between Europe and China? Moscow (via Aeroflot or whatever) works better for trips to Europe given earth curvature. The only nonstops I can find are Moscow, St Petersburg, Novosibirsk, Baku, Astana, Tbilisi, which all makes sense, most of those are Central Asia or almost so, and then Russia. What am I missing?

Russia is one of few countries not giving a "freedom of air." Overflight rights are only given to flag carriers at extortionate rates, most EU-China flights have to take rather weird routes. There used to be flights through Urumqi on EU-China routes just 2 years ago with stops just in it or in Almaty by quite a number of airlines. The accursed flight I was on was done by China Southern

Unless someone else is paying, I always fly Aeroflot via Moscow when going between Beijing and Europe. Not only are the fares very reasonable, but Moscow airport is a fairly nice lay over (they serve beer at Burger King).

I’ve flown out of Urumqi once on a domestic. Even that domestic flight required a one night layover in Xian. Annoying.

Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#255

Post by seanmcdirmid »

QuercusMax wrote: post #253
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xinjiang is also much larger population (21 million+) wise than Tibet (3 million+), along with the former having a much larger Han population, making restrictions much harder (and less appealing) to implement logistically.

I hope you mean population, not ovulation.

Yikes! Fixed.

Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#257

Post by Theodores »

chaostheory wrote: post #172
Iv wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's worse IMO. I can (and would) opt out of taking my phone to China. I can't easily dodge US' requirements. These two bully super-powers really give me a bad feeling about the future...

I think it's far easier to offer up dummy social accounts (even for non-techies) vs being forced to install malware on your phone.

I am not very good at lying. I would not be able to look an officer in the eye and say that I wasn't on social media.

Leaving a posh phone at home to take my old phone I could do without moral complications. I could even say I left my posh phone at home because I didn't want it lost/stolen on my travels. That would not be lying even if the real reason was that I didn't want it violated by a customs officer.

Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#258

Post by educationdata »

orthecreedence wrote: post #224
mLuby wrote: post #96

>"China is using technology for the perfection of dictatorship." -Pete Buttigieg, 2020 US presidential candidate PRC may be blazing the trail, but as the tech becomes proved and available, I won't be surprised to see creeping adoption in more "free" countries (especially following crises).

In China, surveillance is nationalized. In the US, it's nationalized (NSA) and privatized (Facebook). The tech already exists and people are using it willingly.

It's a bs comparison. The Chinese government surveillance is purely for dictatorship, and they do put political opponents and human rights lawyers in jail at a massive scale. The NSA surveillance is mostly for legitimate security reasons and is under restrict scrutiny.

Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#259

Post by curiousgal »

cltsang wrote: post #250
rwmj wrote: post #13

Before I went to China I bought a burner phone, mainly to install WeChat (which is also a kind of malware and also "required" in China). Basic Android phones are not too expensive these days - I wonder if it will become commonplace to own several and physically separate your life across them? FWIW I got a Huawei phone (Honor 10 Lite) for under 200 EUR, but much cheaper phones than that are available. Edit: To be clea…

Next time when you buy a burner phone, please try to be more conscious. Huawei is likely one of the companies that contributed to this very Xinjiang endeavour [0]. Even if it's not directly related, by buying a Huawei phone, you are voting with your money to support a company that's been hurting innovation with IP theft through the years [1]. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/05/25/huawei-ac... [1] htt…

> Huawei is likely one of the companies that contributed to this very Xinjiang endeavour

The article you cite just says that they supplied networking equipment, how is that different than, for example, U.S. conecetration camps using Dell laptops? Would you also blame Dell?

I swear whenever China/Huawei is mentioned on HN, the comments transform into a huge propaganda machine.

Re: Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang

#260

Post by rolltiide »

educationdata wrote: post #258
orthecreedence wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In China, surveillance is nationalized. In the US, it's nationalized (NSA) and privatized (Facebook). The tech already exists and people are using it willingly.

It's a bs comparison. The Chinese government surveillance is purely for dictatorship, and they do put political opponents and human rights lawyers in jail at a massive scale. The NSA surveillance is mostly for legitimate security reasons and is under restrict scrutiny.

LOL

China does it to protect their people from people that want to undermine and dismantle the party

This is true! This is exactly what we want to happen! These are security reasons from their perspective

Can you see how that is not so different? In the US we are as oblivious to the exact nature and motives of security threats too, and tolerate our border and surveillance agencies to preempt an unspecified threat. The mere existence of scrutiny doesnt make the systems that different.

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