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Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

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Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#91

Post by thiht »

mfatica wrote: post #68
tthisk wrote: post #61

The idea behind svelte is neat, i wonder though what the impact of its approach will be on a developers ability to understand what is happening under the hood. In my experience opaque abstraction layers can really hamper your ability to properly understand what is going on. Traditionally the JS ecosystem has been a frontrunner in this area (e.g. sourcemaps). But I have had terrible experiences in the Java ecosystem,…

I think svelte compiling to native javascript is lightyears more understandable than whatever the hell react is doing

> whatever the hell react is doing

Being JavaScript?

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#92

Post by throwawayp0123 »

fasterdom wrote: post #28

I have a table of 100 rows x 10 columns mostly of numbers which change 10 times a second (think trading). The source data sits in an array of objects. On each update, I need to update the table cells with the latest values from the source array. The content of each cell can change, possibly it's css class too (from red it become blue for example). I'm using Vue/Bootstrap-Vue table at the moment, but it's quite slow.…

I don't think any framework itself will be very performant in this, but look into web workers and doing batch updates, it may help.

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#93

Post by pier25 »

prashnts wrote: post #87

It does look great. I’m concerned though, few years ago I used to use rivets [1] for two-way data binding in html. It worked very well. Unfortunately, it’s abandoned. Same fate as coffeescript, backbonejs, etc. Now I primarily use react. Vue looks great, but I don’t want to introduce yet another framework. I could use some insights/view points from hn. I don’t feel using/learning the now-abandoned frameworks is usele…

Someone forked Rivets and made TinyBind which seems to be maintained and has new features such as WC support.

https://github.com/blikblum/tinybind

I haven't used it though.

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#94

Post by gridlockd »

tashoecraft wrote: post #67
gridlockd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should probably settle . Other platforms afford a new UI framework maybe once a decade. The Web Frontend, already running on top of an apparently inadequate framework called "HTML5", somehow needs to be reinvented every year and it's a huge cost factor.

No it's not, no one is rewritting their front ends every year to change frameworks. React was released 6 years ago, Angular fully released about 3 years ago. Just because some person decided to build something that solved their problem and may help others doesn't mean you need to adopt it and change everything. This argument that everyone needs to slow down because some people don't like hearing about change is ridic…

> No it's not, no one is rewritting their front ends every year to change frameworks.

Maybe not quite every year, but the dominant frameworks have changed a lot in the past decade and if you're still running some of the "next big things" of yesteryear the developer pressure to switch is strong. The churn is real.

> React was released 6 years ago, Angular fully released about 3 years ago.

In my opinion, React being quite stable over that timeframe is a big factor in it becoming the dominant player. Angular being scrapped and rewritten is exactly what I'm talking about, lots of development effort wasted there.

> This argument that everyone needs to slow down because some people don't like hearing about change is ridiculous.

If the kids want to keep playing with the latest toys, that's fine. Just don't expect the people paying the bills to buy into them.

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#95

Post by vimota »

wirahx wrote: post #54
CharlesW wrote: post #47

I watched Rich Harris's "Rethinking reactivity" presentation ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNJ3fydeao ) and was incredibly impressed. Has anyone with React/Vue experience used Svelte for a significant project? I'd love to hear about your experience with it.

Yeah - I wrote https://www.beyonk.com in Nuxt first, and I've now rewritten it in Svelte (Sapper). There are some things which weren't ready when I started, but I worked around them. The overall experience is that Svelte results in faster pages, less code, more predictability, faster builds... overall, it's a better experience.

Other than performance, was the developer experience any different? Just curious!

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#96

Post by gridlockd »

manigandham wrote: post #64
gridlockd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should probably settle . Other platforms afford a new UI framework maybe once a decade. The Web Frontend, already running on top of an apparently inadequate framework called "HTML5", somehow needs to be reinvented every year and it's a huge cost factor.

You don't have to use any of it. This website you're reading is just HTML from a server.

If everyone's busy setting little fires, then "You don't have to join in" is not a very good defense.

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#97

Post by robin_reala »

gaze wrote: post #89
robin_reala wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 10 times a second you might be hitting the browser’s table layout algorithm speed limits. I assume you’ve given it table-layout: fixed, and fixed-width columns?

That's a good point. Updating the table might be causing a reflow. Will that prevent updates from causing reflows?

It would certainly reduce it. With table-layout:fixed, the default behaviour is that every cell is the same width as the others. With the normal table layout algorithm it’ll attempt to rebalance as every new cell’s content is added. That makes for a very flexible layout that automatically scales to best fit the content, but have to flush and redo the layout for the whole table every time a column width is calculated to need to change.

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#98

Post by manigandham »

gridlockd wrote: post #96
manigandham wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to use any of it. This website you're reading is just HTML from a server.

If everyone's busy setting little fires, then "You don't have to join in" is not a very good defense.

How does this compare to a fire? It's a constructive new project. Use it if you want, learn from it if you like, or ignore it if you don't care.

You seem to have an axe to grind against JS.

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#99

Post by tedunangst »

ernsheong wrote: post #29
rich_harris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The site is hosted on Google Cloud Run, which seems to have been having some intermittent problems for the last couple of days. EDIT: some other people have had the same issue and the Cloud Run team are investigating

Looks like this issue: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/136539678

Not visible without signing in to google.

Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen

#100

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

mfatica wrote: post #68
tthisk wrote: post #61

The idea behind svelte is neat, i wonder though what the impact of its approach will be on a developers ability to understand what is happening under the hood. In my experience opaque abstraction layers can really hamper your ability to properly understand what is going on. Traditionally the JS ecosystem has been a frontrunner in this area (e.g. sourcemaps). But I have had terrible experiences in the Java ecosystem,…

I think svelte compiling to native javascript is lightyears more understandable than whatever the hell react is doing

I think it's the reverse. If you write pure functional components, React is very understandable. It's easily testable, you know that you'll have the same output if you pass it the same props. Svelte templates just take us back where we've been, with the twist of compiling the templates, which I believe some templating libraries already did.
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