Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years • Hacker News Board

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#11

Post by kfk » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 8:50 AM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #6

I think that it's important for free market advocates, myself included, to understand something. Negative third party externalities, having direct impacts on individuals that did not consent to the responsible transaction(s), are fully within the responsibility of the government to regulate and/or tax. You are not violating your principles by backing state intervention for environmental issues.

Advocates of real free markets want a carbon tax. Externalities are a real problem and there is a lot of economics research on how to deal with it. The issue is that “right wing” has passed to signify “liberal”. There is nothing less liberal, or capitalistic, than most of the current right wing parties in western countries.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#12

Post by StudentStuff » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 8:52 AM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #8

martincollignon wrote: post #7

Want to make a difference on climate change as a technologist? Feel free to join these communities actively looking for support and with ongoing projects (that are alive): - https://climateaction.tech/ - https://techimpactmakers.com/ - https://www.tmrow.com/

You should also take political action. With due respect to people who are trying to take positive individual action, it will not be enough. We've been waiting 30 years and people are still driving SUVs. Only large scale government policy can move the needle for an entire society. Maybe you have political views that you find that distasteful, but unfortunately we're running out of time, and you'll have to choose betwe…

SUVs are becoming more popular despite the serious danger they pose to our environment, both in terms of climate change and significant danger to every other user of the road.

Getting hit at 25mph is likely survivable if hit by a sedan (you'll land on the hood), but an SUV often flattens a person, as the force is applied to their mid to upper body rather than their legs.

Car accidents are also much more catastrophic, our current testing in the USA only tests SUVs against SUVs, sedans vs sedans in crashes, and impact absorbers on SUVs are often higher, meaning the SUV will end up atop a sedan in an accident.

These negative externalities are poorly regulated, permitting these needless deaths and injuries to occur.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#13

Post by rypskar » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 8:59 AM UTC

martincollignon wrote: post #7

Want to make a difference on climate change as a technologist? Feel free to join these communities actively looking for support and with ongoing projects (that are alive): - https://climateaction.tech/ - https://techimpactmakers.com/ - https://www.tmrow.com/

Thank you for the links. Need to check them out more later today to see where I can help, but from first view they all looks like "We want to do something about climate change, join us if you also want to", but not much about what they actually do.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#14

Post by chewz » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 9:03 AM UTC

kfk wrote: post #11

ralusek wrote: post #6

I think that it's important for free market advocates, myself included, to understand something. Negative third party externalities, having direct impacts on individuals that did not consent to the responsible transaction(s), are fully within the responsibility of the government to regulate and/or tax. You are not violating your principles by backing state intervention for environmental issues.

Advocates of real free markets want a carbon tax. Externalities are a real problem and there is a lot of economics research on how to deal with it. The issue is that “right wing” has passed to signify “liberal”. There is nothing less liberal, or capitalistic, than most of the current right wing parties in western countries.

Carbon tax is terrible idea. We have a science proving that it won't work.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lucas_Jr.

Pseudo-market solutions do not work. They are quickly gamed by market players. It would be just a waste of precious time.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#15

Post by VorticesRcool » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

chewz wrote: post #14

kfk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocates of real free markets want a carbon tax. Externalities are a real problem and there is a lot of economics research on how to deal with it. The issue is that “right wing” has passed to signify “liberal”. There is nothing less liberal, or capitalistic, than most of the current right wing parties in western countries.

Carbon tax is terrible idea. We have a science proving that it won't work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lucas_Jr . Pseudo-market solutions do not work. They are quickly gamed by market players. It would be just a waste of precious time.

That link does not say anything about science or a carbon tax. What did that economist have to say about it?

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#16

Post by belorn » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 9:22 AM UTC

rypskar wrote: post #13

martincollignon wrote: post #7

Want to make a difference on climate change as a technologist? Feel free to join these communities actively looking for support and with ongoing projects (that are alive): - https://climateaction.tech/ - https://techimpactmakers.com/ - https://www.tmrow.com/

Thank you for the links. Need to check them out more later today to see where I can help, but from first view they all looks like "We want to do something about climate change, join us if you also want to", but not much about what they actually do.

The two first are about political platforms to organize political events or to spread the word through online guides.

The third link is a tracker app.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#17

Post by perfunctory » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 9:23 AM UTC

A related article on the thinning of Antarctic ice sheets [0]. So we've got the decrease in ice extent as well as thickness, which is equal to total volume decrease?

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/16/thinning...

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#18

Post by llukas » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 9:25 AM UTC

chewz wrote: post #14

kfk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocates of real free markets want a carbon tax. Externalities are a real problem and there is a lot of economics research on how to deal with it. The issue is that “right wing” has passed to signify “liberal”. There is nothing less liberal, or capitalistic, than most of the current right wing parties in western countries.

Carbon tax is terrible idea. We have a science proving that it won't work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lucas_Jr . Pseudo-market solutions do not work. They are quickly gamed by market players. It would be just a waste of precious time.

> We have a science proving that it won't work.

I think physicists can say they proven something but it is in principle debatable. Economy is just witchcraft in comparison - please do not give economy more credibility than it deserves.

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#19

Post by belorn » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 9:26 AM UTC

chewz wrote: post #14

kfk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocates of real free markets want a carbon tax. Externalities are a real problem and there is a lot of economics research on how to deal with it. The issue is that “right wing” has passed to signify “liberal”. There is nothing less liberal, or capitalistic, than most of the current right wing parties in western countries.

Carbon tax is terrible idea. We have a science proving that it won't work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lucas_Jr . Pseudo-market solutions do not work. They are quickly gamed by market players. It would be just a waste of precious time.

Looking at (https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2207/economics/carbon-tax...) the primary argument against Carbon tax is that companies will somehow tax evade even more than in the past, and companies will move to more tax friendly companies than they already do.

Is there an argument against carbon tax that can't be said by any other tax?

Re: Antarctic sea ice – rapid decreases, reduced to lowest area in 40 years

#20

Post by Scarblac » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 9:34 AM UTC

chewz wrote: post #14

kfk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocates of real free markets want a carbon tax. Externalities are a real problem and there is a lot of economics research on how to deal with it. The issue is that “right wing” has passed to signify “liberal”. There is nothing less liberal, or capitalistic, than most of the current right wing parties in western countries.

Carbon tax is terrible idea. We have a science proving that it won't work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lucas_Jr . Pseudo-market solutions do not work. They are quickly gamed by market players. It would be just a waste of precious time.

Rationing then. What else?