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The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

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Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#191

Post by erikpukinskis »

moneytalks wrote: post #176
erikpukinskis wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing in the US is that almost everyone already owns a car (so that’s considered sunk cost) and the cost of fuel is heavily subsidized. So that’s the comparison I guess. It’s not fair, but it’s also sort of reasonable, given car ownership here.

Fuel in the US is subsidized? I thought it was heavily taxed (not compared to European countries but compared to other consumer goods).

There’s very little federal tax, its mostly state tax (which varies).

I add the cost of “development” financing/spying/regime change as part of the cost of oil, and the U.S. pays for all of that, which is a de facto subsidy.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#192

Post by donarb »

legitster wrote: post #102
munificent wrote: post #99

I recently took a train from Seattle to Portland with my family. One difference compared to flying that it took me a while to realize was how amazingly quiet it is. On a plane, the engines are right there out on the wing screaming and conducting that sound directly into the airframe next to you. With a train, the engine is way up front, hundreds of yards a way, separated by several linkages. The end result is that a…

Love that route. Also, on a train the ride is so much smoother - no starts or stop or dealing with traffic. The pricing is nuts, though. A one way train ticket for that route is $36. The same trip via car takes about the same amount of time and $20 in gas. The train is a nice luxury for one person, but for the whole family it becomes very expensive. Passenger rail in the US is absurd.

Amtrak offers 25% off fares on Cascades if you book more than 14 days in advance. Children are also discounted at 50%, infants are free.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#193

Post by ant6n »

princekolt wrote: post #158
ant6n wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For long distances and even regional trains there still exist plenty of locomotives. And BTW, even many high speed trains, including tgv duplex and the acela u nention are effectively locomotive hauled trains.

Yes but the TGV is all based on 70s technology. The more modern trains (such as Siemens Velaro, Alstom AGV, Bomardier ETR 1000) are all multiple-units. One notable exception is the Bombardier/Talgo 350 (known in Spain as "the Duck" for obvious reasons).

The TGV Duplex was developed in the 90s, and continues to be developed, the new version (avelia horizon) coming out in a couple of years. There's a reason it uses a locomotive ("powercar") concept, it relates to it being a double-decker (which all the other trains you mentioned aren't.

I believe the Acela replacement (avelia liberty) uses powercars as well.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#194

Post by Reason077 »

moneytalks wrote: post #176
erikpukinskis wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing in the US is that almost everyone already owns a car (so that’s considered sunk cost) and the cost of fuel is heavily subsidized. So that’s the comparison I guess. It’s not fair, but it’s also sort of reasonable, given car ownership here.

Fuel in the US is subsidized? I thought it was heavily taxed (not compared to European countries but compared to other consumer goods).

The US spends more subsidizing fossil fuels than on defense, according to a report from the International Monetary Fund:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fossil-f...

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#195

Post by reddog »

vkou wrote: post #185
sologoub wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you factor in wear and tear, parking, etc. It’s probably still cheap. You can also rent a car when you get there for something like the same amount for the day and not worry about the wear and tear part.

Much of my car's wear and tear is from age, so I can discount some amount of that that. Free parking is plentiful in 95% of both cities. Driving 1 person is already close to the price of a train ticket. Driving 2 people is ~50% discounted. Driving 2 people, and then not having to rent a car/taxi, is something like a ~75% discount. With a real carbon tax, these numbers would look a lot closer to eachother.

With a real carbon tax these numbers would actually be further apart. I was surprised to learn that in the real world trains are not more efficient than a the average car when measured in passenger mile per gallon equivalent. And trains are much less efficient when compared to a high MPG cars like a Prius. In fact I'd be willing to bet that there are only a few of city/regional public transportations systems in the world that are more energy efficient than just taking your Prius.

https://theicct.org/blogs/staff/planes-trains-and-automobile...

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#196

Post by phlo »

reddog wrote: post #195
vkou wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of my car's wear and tear is from age, so I can discount some amount of that that. Free parking is plentiful in 95% of both cities. Driving 1 person is already close to the price of a train ticket. Driving 2 people is ~50% discounted. Driving 2 people, and then not having to rent a car/taxi, is something like a ~75% discount. With a real carbon tax, these numbers would look a lot closer to eachother.

With a real carbon tax these numbers would actually be further apart. I was surprised to learn that in the real world trains are not more efficient than a the average car when measured in passenger mile per gallon equivalent. And trains are much less efficient when compared to a high MPG cars like a Prius. In fact I'd be willing to bet that there are only a few of city/regional public transportations systems in the w…

Interestingly, the Swiss railway system publishes real-world figures on its Co2 efficiency per passenger-kilometer. [https://www.mobitool.ch/de/tools/vergleichsrechner-15.html, german-only, un nfortunately]

They report some 80 passenger-km per liter of Diesel equivalent energy, compared to 13 passenger-km in a modern hybrid. Both values include the energy production, utilization and energy expenditure for infrastructure.

This assumes a modern network with electric trains though. I'm not sure if the article you cited still uses diesel-powered trains to arrive at such extremely different figures.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#198

Post by metildaa »

vkou wrote: post #185
sologoub wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you factor in wear and tear, parking, etc. It’s probably still cheap. You can also rent a car when you get there for something like the same amount for the day and not worry about the wear and tear part.

Much of my car's wear and tear is from age, so I can discount some amount of that that. Free parking is plentiful in 95% of both cities. Driving 1 person is already close to the price of a train ticket. Driving 2 people is ~50% discounted. Driving 2 people, and then not having to rent a car/taxi, is something like a ~75% discount. With a real carbon tax, these numbers would look a lot closer to eachother.

Depends where you want to go in the city and what you want to do. Portland has some hellish traffic at times, and free parking isn't as plentiful as you describe. The inner suburbs all have metered parking on 2+ lane streets, and extremely competitive side street parking. Plus, the west side suburbs have zoned parking to keep out non-locals: https://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/39277

Taking a bike is a much easier thing to do if you want easy access to the inner burbs and urban core of Portland.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#200

Post by metildaa »

TylerE wrote: post #171
bluGill wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any modern car that is well maintained will last far longer than you will own it. People give up on their cars because their self image needs an excuse to get a new one. A lot of the maintenance cost is time based as well: UV and ozone are destroying rubber parts even while the car is sitting. It depends on the car, but typically you are looking at $.20/mile for fuel, and $.05 for all other maintenance (including tir…

Considering I was driving 30k/yr at one point while commuting, I can imagine quite a lot of miles, actually. PS: Your insurance costs are fantasy land. The average US driver pays almost $1500/hr. I haven't had so much as a speeding ticket in a decade and live in a safe small town and am still over $1k/yr.

Lower mileage insurance can help reduce that cost by the way, if you tell your insurer your only adding 2k miles a year to the car rather than 10k miles, they will drop your rates commensurately.

Sub in an eBike for the commuting & errands, its quite doable to go car light or car free (esp. if Car2go, Lime pod or another service is available in your city).

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