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The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

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Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#121

Post by smcl »

cylicbob wrote: post #96
alkonaut wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU should force a carbon tax on plane fuel for intra-EU flights and subsidize rail with the money.

The saddest part of this statement is that the European rail system is MASSIVELY subsidized even at the price points that the person you responded to described as "paying out the nose", which of course is a somewhat subjective position for a European to say, because their already lower salaries are massively taxed and to pay for the subsidized rail systems the gleeful Americans can gush about being so cheap when they…

I'm curious what massive subsidies you're talking about, do you have numbers or examples of what upsets you in particular?

I really don't think European public transport is the major force driving young Americans to the left. I hear a lot of young Americans who (quite rightly IMO) look at socialised healthcare in the EU and wonder why on earth they can't have it back home ... but that's a separate issue altogether

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#122

Post by ceejayoz »

ovi256 wrote: post #81
mschuster91 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The joke is that airfare is way too cheap compared to the damage it causes - be it noise, exhaust gases or land usage for airport infrastructure. In addition jet fuel in Europe is tax-free which enables these ultra low prices.

>In addition jet fuel in Europe is tax-free which enables these ultra low prices. This kind of Orwellian double speak is amazing. Lack of tax leaves too low prices for the consumer! If you really feel that this tax is important, you can always tax yourself! Anyone you can persuade can join you, voluntarily. Just estimate the tax you owe (through this as of now not yet enacted tax) and send a cheque to the national tr…

> This kind of Orwellian double speak is amazing. Lack of tax leaves too low prices for the consumer!

The point of the tax is to tie the costs of externalities (pollution, climate change, etc.) directly to the usage.

Not taxing fuel means the population as a whole winds up subsidizing the air travelers and their impact on the country.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#123

Post by mikepurvis »

cylicbob wrote: post #96
alkonaut wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU should force a carbon tax on plane fuel for intra-EU flights and subsidize rail with the money.

The saddest part of this statement is that the European rail system is MASSIVELY subsidized even at the price points that the person you responded to described as "paying out the nose", which of course is a somewhat subjective position for a European to say, because their already lower salaries are massively taxed and to pay for the subsidized rail systems the gleeful Americans can gush about being so cheap when they…

Air travel is massively subsidized too (airport construction, airline and manufacturer bailouts); as is highway travel (automaker bailouts, free trade supply chain, environmental externalities, health costs associated with driving and sprawl, plus gas taxes which cover only a small proportion of actual construction and maintenance costs).

It's difficult to do a true apples to apples comparison, especially when highways are also justified in part as a national security asset. But it's a little much to clutch pearls about subsidies for rail ("immoral", really?) without acknowledging how subsidized the alternatives are as well.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#125

Post by novok »

legitster wrote: post #102
munificent wrote: post #99

I recently took a train from Seattle to Portland with my family. One difference compared to flying that it took me a while to realize was how amazingly quiet it is. On a plane, the engines are right there out on the wing screaming and conducting that sound directly into the airframe next to you. With a train, the engine is way up front, hundreds of yards a way, separated by several linkages. The end result is that a…

Love that route. Also, on a train the ride is so much smoother - no starts or stop or dealing with traffic. The pricing is nuts, though. A one way train ticket for that route is $36. The same trip via car takes about the same amount of time and $20 in gas. The train is a nice luxury for one person, but for the whole family it becomes very expensive. Passenger rail in the US is absurd.

But then I don’t have to focus on driving for several hours and can do my own thing.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#126

Post by fyfy18 »

joezydeco wrote: post #90
dougmwne wrote: post #23

This design is wonderful and it reminds me a of 21st century version of this: https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/venice-simplon-orient-... Train travel can be absolutely luxurious in a way that a plane or self-driving car could never be. You don't even need to book a $3,000 historical reenactment to get a taste. On a whim, I once booked a 1st class AVE train in Spain for an extra $10 and ended up with bottomless w…

The information displays built into the viewing window frames are very nice, but you already know those will be the first things to get thrown out for cost and/or complexity.

Or the first place where they will start blasting you with adverts.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#127

Post by vidarh »

cylicbob wrote: post #96
alkonaut wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU should force a carbon tax on plane fuel for intra-EU flights and subsidize rail with the money.

The saddest part of this statement is that the European rail system is MASSIVELY subsidized even at the price points that the person you responded to described as "paying out the nose", which of course is a somewhat subjective position for a European to say, because their already lower salaries are massively taxed and to pay for the subsidized rail systems the gleeful Americans can gush about being so cheap when they…

This is crazy misleading. According to OECD taxing wages 2019, only single tax payers on significantly above median salary pay more than 35% tax and social security contributions combined in Austria. This places Austria far in excess of the OECD average.

Rather than being some low tax paradise, the US is around the OECD average in most categories.

As for things like vat, they look far worse than they are when you realise a lot of goods are zero rated, and most people spend only a s portion of their income on good due VAT. Last I checked in the UK it adds ca 3 percentage points to my tax overall tax burden. I don't pay much more tax here than I would in any number of US states at my income level.

When factoring in health insurance, it gets even closer. Having spent time both places, I'd pick European tax levels over 'US conditions' (a term frequently used to scare voters in many European countries) any day.

As for being immoral: we've voted for these tax levels. Surveys in the UK often show us prepared to accept increases as long as they go to the right things, like the NHS.

Feel free to enjoy our trains - I've never met a European that is as concerned with subsidising foreigners travelling on them as you are on our behalf.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#128

Post by legitster »

ceejayoz wrote: post #116
legitster wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love that route. Also, on a train the ride is so much smoother - no starts or stop or dealing with traffic. The pricing is nuts, though. A one way train ticket for that route is $36. The same trip via car takes about the same amount of time and $20 in gas. The train is a nice luxury for one person, but for the whole family it becomes very expensive. Passenger rail in the US is absurd.

> A one way train ticket for that route is $36. The same trip via car takes about the same amount of time and $20 in gas. Don't forget wear and tear on the car, though. The IRS sets mileage at 58 cents/mile. That's $100 for Seattle to Portland.

That's fair. I do my own maintenance and drive cheap cars. YMMV.

Still, even at the full rate, two people back and forth, it's still cheaper to drive.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#129

Post by gsnedders »

arethuza wrote: post #70
phillc73 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the Caledonian Sleeper to Fort William does stop at Edinburgh Waverley, just not terminate there.

Corrected - I meant "doesn't terminate" rather than "doesn't stop" - I think the train splits somewhere to go its various ways.

The Highlander (to Aberdeen, Fort William, and Inverness) splits at Edinburgh Waverley (though that's not a passenger call); the Lowlander (to Edinburgh and Glasgow) splits at Carstairs Junction.

Re: The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

#130

Post by gingabriska »

legitster wrote: post #102
munificent wrote: post #99

I recently took a train from Seattle to Portland with my family. One difference compared to flying that it took me a while to realize was how amazingly quiet it is. On a plane, the engines are right there out on the wing screaming and conducting that sound directly into the airframe next to you. With a train, the engine is way up front, hundreds of yards a way, separated by several linkages. The end result is that a…

Love that route. Also, on a train the ride is so much smoother - no starts or stop or dealing with traffic. The pricing is nuts, though. A one way train ticket for that route is $36. The same trip via car takes about the same amount of time and $20 in gas. The train is a nice luxury for one person, but for the whole family it becomes very expensive. Passenger rail in the US is absurd.

In India you can go north to south and east to west for that much money in AC train.
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