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Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

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111–120 of 122 posts

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#111
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and the economy collapsed because it wasn't sustainable.

if external factors didn’t exist you might be right. But they do so you are wrong. It’s impossible to say if the system was sustainable because America meddled and interfered from the very first day out of fear for their own position. Kinda like how they murdered union leaders all around the works, overthrew governments for being not right wing enough and started wars for false reasons. But sure, the problem was the…

You are giving the USA too much credit, they were as surprised as everyone else when the communist bloc fell.

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#112
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still math. If you go that route, then the people who build and program the robots will necessarily be paid less. Today that is likely a top 10% job. (More likely a top 5% job if we're being honest.) In a world where everyone has a college degree and there are 30 times the number of people who can program those things because the tools have gotten just that easy... well, you do the math. At the extreme, you can'…

This is a real misunderstanding of economics. If you increase productivity through technology, it's possible for everyone to earn more real dollars (as a product of cost of living). It's not a zero sum game. Imagine it this way. Everyone today is making more than hunt from a cave money. Why is that? Because a single human can produce more than the bare minimum for survival.

There are zero sum subgames, such as:

- who gets to buy prime location property

- who ends up in best schools

- who gets to own mines and infrastructure

- who gets to truly rule (too big governments are slow)

- every instance of packing problem where supply is limited by real scarcity or scaling by communication

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#113
post #24
post #6

The credibility of the article is undermined by hyperbolic statements such as, "For a lot of children, when they’re 8 years old, it’s too late. If your parents aren’t engaged in the education system, in 10 years you’ll be competing in the labor market against people whose parents sent them to violin lessons and summer programs in the Dominican Republic. There’s inequality of opportunity." It's too late for "a lot of…

For a lot of 8 year olds that is accurate. Imagine not being able to read at 8. If your parents don't intervene you will be handicapped for life. On the other hand if your parents tutor you then it becomes a non-event.

Parents who were tutoring get paid less, reducing other opportunities perhaps? (Working hypothesis, almost no parents tutor or can do so above primary school level in many field...)

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#114
post #4

“But the last 50 years have been terrible for people with lower skills. Adjusted for inflation, the average earnings of a man who didn’t go to college is lower now than it was 50 years ago. That’s unheard of.” How much of this effect is the vastly higher percentage of people who now go to college? If you line up 100 people by vague estimation of their likely earning potential in 1970 and do the same today, but now 2.…

College is just a proxy for IQ. Shoving more people into college isn't going to make them smarter, if they don't have the mental horsepower. Basically you've got two levers, genetics and environment, and practically you can only change the latter by early intervention. Nutrition, enriching environment, and good education.

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#115
post #6

The credibility of the article is undermined by hyperbolic statements such as, "For a lot of children, when they’re 8 years old, it’s too late. If your parents aren’t engaged in the education system, in 10 years you’ll be competing in the labor market against people whose parents sent them to violin lessons and summer programs in the Dominican Republic. There’s inequality of opportunity." It's too late for "a lot of…

Hi, black software engineer from Chicago's West side. From 1st through 4th, I attended a community elementary school where my older sister and I were the only students who could effectively read at all. The entire school was participating in a remedial education program where all the textbooks, 1st through 6th or so, broke words in sentences down by syllable. They barely practiced math, they were so focused on just getting the ability to read to be set in. This created immense ostracization for my sister and I. She graduated after two years whereas I stuck around for another two through fourth. To give you an idea what some of the parents were on, once a bunch of classmates, whom I somehow got grouped into, were held for detention after school in class in third grade because they were ruthlessly making fun of a girl. As we all mandatorily stood with our hands on our heads, I watched as her father walked her MUCH OLDER MALE COUSIN into the class, after school hours, and proceeded to order him to beat each of us up one-by-one for making fun of his daughter. I was second to last for a beating when my third-grade teacher finally returned to the class and stopped this assault. Mind you, my mother worked at the school and this older cousin knew this and knew her as well. I've also seen kids smacked around and chastised _in front of the class_, by their parent, for failing to fight back in a fight (which is kinda important to learn, but that ain't the way to do it).

After years of this someone finally took notice and transferred me to a school in a historically Jewish neighborhood on the north end of the city where I was finally surrounded by children that were my academic peers, on a hour or so bus ride each day early in the morning. My first day of class in my new school was when I discovered there was this thing called cursive writing.

I don't think enough people understand the situation for a growing child in the tougher areas of Chicago, this was just all in the 90s, things are worse now.

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like a conspiracy theorist if you have no sources, the first couple google searches are not doing this[0],[1]. The public is being misled, by whenever someone complains about stagnant wages the response is "you have smartphones now", but we can't afford houses or healthcare how is this okay? So your argument seems to be that all economists are in on this together to do what? And your thankful your favorite…

I'll give you one source: Read the headline on this NYT article "Why Wages Are Finally Rising, 10 Years After the Recession" https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/business/economy/wage-gro... Then look at the article: nominal wages rose every year (as indicated in the chart), but the breathless headline suggests the opposite to the average American. Do you believe that the omission of the word "real" in the headline was…

That's not what you said before at all, they don't do an inconsistent comparison of real and nominal, which what I thought the problem to be >>" Inevitably, the income will be real income [inflation adjusted] and the prices nominal prices."

They don't specify which in the title, but they do in the article. The biggest thing is there is no comparison between nominal and real prices. Acting like the nominal cost of things is not keeping up with real wages.

If you don't want to get tricked maybe read the whole article instead of just the title. It is a somewhat complex topic and takes some thought to put into it if you want to know what is going on.

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like a conspiracy theorist if you have no sources, the first couple google searches are not doing this[0],[1]. The public is being misled, by whenever someone complains about stagnant wages the response is "you have smartphones now", but we can't afford houses or healthcare how is this okay? So your argument seems to be that all economists are in on this together to do what? And your thankful your favorite…

It’s not conspiracy theory, but rather the fact that data analysis is hard when you’re trying to account for confounding factors, and the media has incentives to report figures that make things seem more significant than they are. Even things that are true are often reported in a way that obscures causal factors. For example, wages are stagnating, but total compensation (wages plus benefits) is not. Now, from an empl…

The points you bring are certainly interesting, it seems to point to the fact that we are distributing healthcare very inefficiently and I would use this as an argument for government-run healthcare.

Here is the conspiracy theory presented with no examples: >Inevitably, the income will be real income [inflation adjusted] and the prices nominal prices.

This is what I take issue with and I don't think that a comparison between real nominal prices happens in order to trick people. This seems like something high school student wouldn't get away with.

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you one source: Read the headline on this NYT article "Why Wages Are Finally Rising, 10 Years After the Recession" https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/business/economy/wage-gro... Then look at the article: nominal wages rose every year (as indicated in the chart), but the breathless headline suggests the opposite to the average American. Do you believe that the omission of the word "real" in the headline was…

That's not what you said before at all, they don't do an inconsistent comparison of real and nominal, which what I thought the problem to be >>" Inevitably, the income will be real income [inflation adjusted] and the prices nominal prices." They don't specify which in the title, but they do in the article. The biggest thing is there is no comparison between nominal and real prices . Acting like the nominal cost of th…

I've seen the exact behavior I described; this was the fastest misleading headline I could find in a quick search.

I'll reply on thread next time I see one, which is likely to not happen in the next 24 hours. Hopefully, you'll take an open minded read to see where social and mainstream media accounts are biased for outrage and clicks over information content and will notice these on your own as well.

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#119

Of course, no mention of inflation, the policy choice which robs from the poor and gives to the rich. How does it rob from the poor? https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/the-case-for-hi... "when you have very low inflation, getting relative wages right would require that a significant number of workers take wage cuts." In other words, inflation is a policy choice to combat sticky wages, which (if you think th…

The article tell us: "You had the same thing with the Industrial Revolution that concentrated more and more wealth into the hands of capital. " So, your identification of causation with the end of the gold standard it's not at all clear. In a way, inflation can be re-distributive because is good for the debtor and bad for the lender. Maybe, is time to accept that wealth accumulates, money call money, and the leveler…

> is good for the debtor and bad for the lender.

This is a huge myth propagated by economic planners who have never been poor. Typically, the poor don't have debt at all due to no access to banking services, and when they do have access to debt it's a double digit interest rates on short-term revolving basis. Inflation does not help that situation at all.

The idea that the rich have no debt is total nonsense. Most of the wealthy make money off of debt-based instruments. For example, trading on margin, shorting, options calls and puts, forex trading, all depend on low interest rates/expanding money supply to make long-term speculative adventures worthwhile.

It is, indeed, low interest loans, over the long term, which are the most helped by inflation.

Re: Rising US Inequality: How We Got Here, Where We're Going

#120
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a real misunderstanding of economics. If you increase productivity through technology, it's possible for everyone to earn more real dollars (as a product of cost of living). It's not a zero sum game. Imagine it this way. Everyone today is making more than hunt from a cave money. Why is that? Because a single human can produce more than the bare minimum for survival.

There are zero sum subgames, such as: - who gets to buy prime location property - who ends up in best schools - who gets to own mines and infrastructure - who gets to truly rule (too big governments are slow) - every instance of packing problem where supply is limited by real scarcity or scaling by communication

Uh, alright but that has nothing to do with average real wages.
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