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I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

nytimes.com

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Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#251

Post by remote_phone »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #243
remote_phone wrote: post #199

People who say men wouldn’t face the same criticism are wrong. I’m almost 50 and all my friends have been guided by the song “Cats in the cradle” by Harry Chaplin. It’s so prevalent even memes are based on it now. I have sacrificed significant portions of my career to be there for my kids. There are some of my male peers that are less attentive than me but universally we would think they are simply bad fathers. I don…

> People who say men wouldn’t face the same criticism are wrong. I'm going to challenge you on this one, especially since the post currently right above yours is from a single father of 5 with this quote: "I'm really glad I'm a single Dad and not a single Mum because there are very few cultural expectations of me beyond working, and everyone acts like I'm amazing for just raising my kids. It's kinda insulting to both…

I’ll grant your point that maybe it’s cultural or depends on where you live. I live in the SF Bay Area and it’s clear from the parent post that he lives in Europe or Australia/NZ based on his use of “mum”. Given the author lives in the SF Bay Area I think my point stands though.

Among my dozens of friends with children, there’s a couple of friends who don’t spend very much time with their kids and they are universally looked on as the “shitty” dads. One likes to do his sports on the weekends and regularly abandons his children and wife to do that. The other plays video games all the time “to unwind” and his children are basically ignored.

The rest of the dads I know feel a lot of pressure trying to be good dads (and husbands) and split child duties. I don’t know many females who would accept it, since they have demanding careers as well. I don’t know very many dads who thinks it’s okay that the mom does most of the child rearing and I’m probably 15-20 years older than the average HN reader.

Maybe at lower income levels or lower costs areas it’s more true that women take more of the child rearing duties. In expensive areas like SF Bay Area, most women work except among the very rich, so you will see a complete split of duties most of the time.

At least at the same income level as the author in the same area, I don’t believe that women are still considered the primary child rearer. And given the author’s successes and writings, I highly doubt she would have chosen a mate who would assume that she would do most of the child rearing.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#252

Post by hyperpape »

cheez wrote: post #236
hyperpape wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem impossible that women are just as likely to shove or slap a man they're in a partnership with, though I'd like to see more followup than this article to be convinced. However, the statistics on murder are pretty fucking clear: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides... . Given the frequency with which murder is preceded by a string of violence requiring medical attention, I'd wage…

Don't conflate the murdering men with men who have done nothing. This is the entire problem. All men don't rape, all men don't murder.

> All men don’t rape, all men don’t murder

As a man, I’m well aware of this! However, your comment is a non-sequitur.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#253

Post by lonelappde »

TheOperator wrote: post #38

So has most of western society. Thus the birthrate cratering. Since this woman has two kids she's picking kids over job more than most people. She's simply more honest than most about the whole thing. I find the western disinterest in raising their own children (and having them) fascinating. There seems to be a widespread ideal of trying to leave a legacy through deeds rather than through your own children. Much of t…

The birthrate in USA has fluctuated between 1.7 and 2.1 for the past 50 years. It's higher now than in 1975.

The racists are free to keep squeezing out as many kids as they want.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#254

Post by untog »

cheez wrote: post #232
untog wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The authors say they have no intention of minimizing the very real problem of serious domestic violence — the classic male batterer. The survey did not cover the use of knives, guns, choking, or burning, and it was not concerned with the kind of situation that can drive a woman to seek shelter outside the home. The view of the authors is that most intimate partner violence should not be equated with severe batterin…

> The article's own summary suggests against making the kind of conclusions the article you linked to makes. Of course, they have to. Do you think 30% of men murder their wives? No, clearly it's some small percentage that severely batter. Therefore, those are the statistics that I would ignore and rather focus on the remainder who are the men that suffer as a result of this type of conflation. It's politically easy t…

> So why should historical events I have no responsibility for serve to restrict my freedom?

Again: I am not suggesting that. No-one is suggesting that. I am saying that society is attempting to move beyond horrifying historical trends, and that in the course of that has over-corrected in some areas. No-one is suggesting this is a good thing or that it shouldn't be fixed.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#256

Post by mgbmtl »

lonelappde wrote: post #235
alanbernstein wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She doesn't mention the subject of that particular trial, but the previous example makes the stakes of her work clear: overturning wrongful murder convictions to get innocent people out of jail. Missing a birthday seems a worthy tradeoff.

How does she know they are innocent if she is actively sabotaging the state's efforts research and prepare the evidence?

Why do you suspect she acted in bad faith, and assume that the state is acting in good faith?

It seemed rather strongly arguable that 1) she takes cases she is passionate about 2) she seems to deal with cases where the state was abusive.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#257

Post by cheez »

untog wrote: post #254
cheez wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article's own summary suggests against making the kind of conclusions the article you linked to makes. Of course, they have to. Do you think 30% of men murder their wives? No, clearly it's some small percentage that severely batter. Therefore, those are the statistics that I would ignore and rather focus on the remainder who are the men that suffer as a result of this type of conflation. It's politically easy t…

> So why should historical events I have no responsibility for serve to restrict my freedom? Again: I am not suggesting that. No-one is suggesting that. I am saying that society is attempting to move beyond horrifying historical trends, and that in the course of that has over-corrected in some areas. No-one is suggesting this is a good thing or that it shouldn't be fixed.

And I am saying these horrifying trends with men battering women to the point of death never existed.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#258

Post by cheez »

hyperpape wrote: post #252
cheez wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't conflate the murdering men with men who have done nothing. This is the entire problem. All men don't rape, all men don't murder.

> All men don’t rape, all men don’t murder As a man, I’m well aware of this! However, your comment is a non-sequitur.

Then why are you so loose in your response? Why do you conflate murder with a loose definition of domestic violence? With the looser definition, women are MORE violent than men.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#259

Post by [deleted] »

50656E6973 wrote: post #237
untog wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy. But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in…

>historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence. Historically, men have been on the receiving end of violence far, far more than women. Far more likely to be assaulted/murdered on the street, convicted for a crime they did not commit, or drafted into and killed in war.

[deleted]

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#260

Post by simonh »

notacoward wrote: post #227

I feel like the author is using one part of her story to excuse other unrelated decisions. Sure, defending a man she believes was improperly convicted and a victim of racism is important. Very important. It seems perfectly reasonable to weigh that responsibility against that she owes to her kids (though I might still make the opposite choice myself). But another student to teach? Another story to write? Nope. Other p…

I don't think it's for us to pre-judge which rationalisations are good ones and which aren't. Some of them seem pretty compelling, but for others such as the student needing help we just don't know enough about the specific circumstances to know.

Individually I can agree that yes this task is important enough to give up that event with her children. They might all be reasonable. I think the problem comes when you look at the aggregate.

One lawyer can't save every victim of injustice or teach every student. Does she actually need to get into every one of these demanding situations one after the other, with no gap? Even then, maybe the answer is yes if that's what it takes to get ahead in her career to achieve the things she wants to, but that's really the tradeoff not the individual instances.

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