Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 358 posts

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#181

Post by rlonn »

lukego wrote: post #113
jedberg wrote: post #50

> I also remind myself that if I were a dad, I would be getting accolades for all the times I scheduled a doctor’s appointment or arranged a play date. 1000 times this. If I take the kids to the store, or through airport security, or pretty much anywhere, women are practically running over to "help" me. Thank you but I got it. Go help that poor mom over there with three meltdowns to deal with, she needs it a lot more…

This is very cultural too. Some places it's expected that dads take care of kids equally with mums. I heard a great anecdote about a Manhattanite visiting Stockholm on vacation. Lots of men pushing prams all around town. "My goodness, look at all the young male nannies in Sweden!"

Yes, in Stockholm (and I guess most of Sweden) noone local raises an eyebrow when a dad comes pushing a pram. I think there's been a change the past 10-15 years when new parental leave requirements has forced both parents to share the parental leave (or they'll get less of it). This made it almost stupid for many dads not to go on parental leave and it's accelerated a change that would otherwise have taken some time.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#182

Post by barry-cotter »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #174
barry-cotter wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Historically, kids were raised within a tribal or quasi-tribal structure. When you have grandparents, siblings, cousins, uncles and aunts always around, room to play and explore, you don't need parents to be there 24/7 hovering over you. You learn independence as well as a way to interact and negotiate with others. Mostly untrue in Western Europe for more than 500 years[1] and very much untrue in North America, to…

You seem to think that because a family moves into their own house they do not get support from relatives? This is obviously completely false, and until ~50 years ago most people lived near their relatives, who would obviously help out a lot with raising a child.

Geographic mobility in the USA has been declining for decades but it’s still probably the most mobile least rooted nation in the Western world. Whether you’re talking about immigrants from abroad or internal migration from the North to the Sunbelt and South or post WWII migration to California, the Great Migration of Southern Blacks to what’s now the Rustbelt or before that Appalachians and Okies to the West Americans are extremely mobile. Most people live near their family still but a culture where the professional classes move away from home for college and probably move again for their first job will have a lot of people living nowhere near any family. Even apart from the professional classes people from economically depressed classes join the military in droves and they move where they’re sent and often settle there after their enlistment.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#183

Post by technothrasher »

rayiner wrote: post #64
jedberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the immigrant parents that own a Chinese restaurant open seven days a week make it to any of their kids school functions or camping trips? Are they being irreparably damaged? Based on my experience going to college with a few kids like that, yes. They all resented their childhood and the fact that the only way to see their parents was to work in the restaurant.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media.

I watched my poor Sikh friend exasperated with his two young daughters who desperately wanted a Christmas tree like all the other kids and bugged him endlessly about it. He lost. It was pretty funny. They've both now grown into fine young women who are proud of their Sikh religion, so no harm done.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#184

Post by codernyc16 »

afiori wrote: post #180
dudul wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being one is talking about "how they think things would be if they were a dad", while the other is talking about the actual experience they had while being a dad. Somehow I feel like one of the two takes precedence in terms of credibility.

But they are in agreement. The same way both assuming that a [category X] can't do [stuff Y] and being positively surprised when they do are two faces of the same discrimination.

They could both arise from the same cause, but that says nothing about how often they occur. You seem to imply they’re equivalent, potentially in frequency as well. A real world account seems to suggest the negative experience happens more often. I’d like to hear him comment on it.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#185

Post by untog »

throwaway4378 wrote: post #164

Few days ago I saw something about “Men’s rights” movement and my first reaction was to think of it as parody and laugh it off. But then I looked at few stories and videos and it was eye opening. Many people don’t understand how badly some of the men are being exploited and even driven to suicide. Current laws in Western world are heavily tilted towards perceiving men as guilty party, someone who must always be makin…

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy.

But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence. They still suffer far more but can at least talk about it now.

When people mock Men's Rights they aren't mocking men who campaign for divorce law reform. They mock men who sit around in online communities and say "but muh feminists!"

> Western society has only accepted one side of view and sexism on other side gets laughed off to oblivion.

Western society had tried to rectify the unfair treatment women have received for hundreds (thousands?) of years. And in areas it has overcorrected. That's fixable. It doesn't mean the entire endeavour is misguided.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#186

Post by afiori »

permatech wrote: post #121
funnybeam wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another atheist, that sounds (taken at face value) pretty good to me. Community is massively missing for many people and having a structure that provides that is very attractive. Not disputing your points, just would be nice to have an equivalent without the religion and other negative side effects

Community is great, but a community of people who drink the kool-aid to get along and go along sounds awful.

As an (Jungian?) atheist I fully claim that similar problems exist fully within non religious communities. Try voicing doubts on progressive ideologies in many woke communities, they do not take is well either.

I do not understand why communities often morph in this way.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#187

Post by untog »

yomly wrote: post #146
MRD85 wrote: post #14

I made the opposite choice. I'm a single father and I've prioritised my children over my career. I'm not going to pretend it's an amazing lifestyle. If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. However, I love them and they rely on me. I made a choice to bring them into the world and I'm not going to neglect them. I have the kids more than their mother does, and I also pay…

>If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. I've never understood this viewpoint - children are simply the most fascinating things! They're born with next to no inborn knowledge and yet have the potential to learn about quantum mechanics. Someone with the same potential would only have learned about fire some hundred thousands of years ago. In the early days you get to se…

In my experience the long term experience of parenting is fascinating and incredibly rewarding. The day to day is tedious.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#189

Post by afiori »

kuerbel wrote: post #152
barry-cotter wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the point. A community that can keep people who are indifferent or hostile to its values out has some chance of survival. One that can’t doesn't. Keeping people like you or me out is not an incidental benefit of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, it’s indispensable. If you completely disagree with a community's core tenets they do not want you . And if you’re not a member of a community your feelings about how it should…

I really don't think so. Societal pressure can be even more convincing than violence. If you are going to lose all of your friends and family if you complain about something, that is not healthy. If you have to tell your followers that independent thought is coming right from the devil (lol btw), somethings not quite right with your faith. Else you would not fear independent thought.

> Societal pressure can be even more convincing than violence.

this is true, these communities are walking on a thin rope. They are constantly in danger of falling out of balance.

> somethings not quite right with your faith. Else you would not fear independent thought.

I disagree. There is no indication that rationality and independent thinking are what is best for an individual. They have been hugely positive for humanity, but there is also freedom in submission. Being in a healthy community where you fully understand your role in life seems a lot better than being a nihilist (not the only outcome, but also not the worst one).

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#190

Post by 14 »

MRD85 wrote: post #14

I made the opposite choice. I'm a single father and I've prioritised my children over my career. I'm not going to pretend it's an amazing lifestyle. If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. However, I love them and they rely on me. I made a choice to bring them into the world and I'm not going to neglect them. I have the kids more than their mother does, and I also pay…

I have worked in health care for 15 years primarily taking care of elderly. The biggest message basically they all make is to not let time pass you by when you are young and to enjoy the time with your kids when they are young. Because before you know it they grow up and it’s never the same. I am a single dad as well. I too sacrificed my career so they got the time they needed. My love life is non existent also but I don’t mind. It won’t be like that forever. You are doing the right thing by the sounds of it so good job. When we get to our death beds our kids will be at our sides and there will be no doubt you and I made the correct choice. As for the lady in the article, the entire time I read it as her trying so hard to convince herself her choices were worth it but I fear from my experience she will later regret it. Though I truly like her cause, her own kids lost a family member much like these people going to jail away from their family. I hope she can make the balance her children seek from her.
Post reply on HN