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I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

nytimes.com

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Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#171

Post by alasdair_ »

react_burger38 wrote: post #78
barry-cotter wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Witnesses miss out on birthdays, non Witnesses miss out on being a part of their community with the benefits and disadvantages that come with that. I’m not familiar with them but any demanding (and hence cohesive) religious community I’m aware of is it’s own social group, support network, family substitute if someone is sick or when somebody dies or just needs to move. Mormons celebrate birthdays but the adults have…

Small correction -- members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (of which I am one) don't have to give up on caffeine. There were some people who taught and practiced that, but that is largely in the past. Even BYU, the church-owned school, now sells fully-caffeinated Coke on campus. This was a fairly recent development. As well, members are encouraged to avoid any media that includes sexually explicit…

>Members are assigned "ministers", two people who check up on them, are officially assigned to love them, and report back to the leadership of each ward (congregation) regularly about any problems the people they minister to may have. All this in addition to the friendships that naturally form with people you see once a week.

I have friends who left the mormon church after decades because of these "ministers". They were always asking when the couple was going to have another baby and constantly prying into their lives and reporting back. They found it creepy.

When they finally decided to leave, it got so bad (mormons ambushing them in the strangest places with aggressive questioning) that they had to file for a restraining order to keep them away.

The churches stance on homosexuality didn't help either, but it was the ministers that were the most invasive part.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#172

Post by martindbp »

lukego wrote: post #113
jedberg wrote: post #50

> I also remind myself that if I were a dad, I would be getting accolades for all the times I scheduled a doctor’s appointment or arranged a play date. 1000 times this. If I take the kids to the store, or through airport security, or pretty much anywhere, women are practically running over to "help" me. Thank you but I got it. Go help that poor mom over there with three meltdowns to deal with, she needs it a lot more…

This is very cultural too. Some places it's expected that dads take care of kids equally with mums. I heard a great anecdote about a Manhattanite visiting Stockholm on vacation. Lots of men pushing prams all around town. "My goodness, look at all the young male nannies in Sweden!"

Go to any playground and you'll see 80% fathers. The reason is the mom is usually home the first 10-12 months, and the dad after that, which coincides with the baby learning to walk and being able to actually play at the playground. It doesn't necessarily mean we split things exactly equal, personally I'm on leave for 7 months now while my wife took 12, while the average for men is 3-4 months. Must make a strange scene for Manhattanites though!

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#173

Post by cujo »

throwaway4378 wrote: post #164

Few days ago I saw something about “Men’s rights” movement and my first reaction was to think of it as parody and laugh it off. But then I looked at few stories and videos and it was eye opening. Many people don’t understand how badly some of the men are being exploited and even driven to suicide. Current laws in Western world are heavily tilted towards perceiving men as guilty party, someone who must always be makin…

> I understand above are rare cases and that women gets sharp end of rope far more often.

And

> Western society has only accepted one side of view and sexism on other side gets laughed off to oblivion.

Your attempt to sound reasoned fails a bit. You sound an awful lot like a men's rights shill.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#174

Post by Nimitz14 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #84
macspoofing wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Parents today spend more than twice as much time today with their kids today than fifty years ago That's a good point but there's some detail missing here: how are the kids being raised. Historically, kids were raised within a tribal or quasi-tribal structure. When you have grandparents, siblings, cousins, uncles and aunts always around, room to play and explore, you don't need parents to be there 24/7 hovering over…

> Historically, kids were raised within a tribal or quasi-tribal structure. When you have grandparents, siblings, cousins, uncles and aunts always around, room to play and explore, you don't need parents to be there 24/7 hovering over you. You learn independence as well as a way to interact and negotiate with others. Mostly untrue in Western Europe for more than 500 years[1] and very much untrue in North America, to…

You seem to think that because a family moves into their own house they do not get support from relatives? This is obviously completely false, and until ~50 years ago most people lived near their relatives, who would obviously help out a lot with raising a child.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#175

Post by rlonn »

yomly wrote: post #146
MRD85 wrote: post #14

I made the opposite choice. I'm a single father and I've prioritised my children over my career. I'm not going to pretend it's an amazing lifestyle. If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. However, I love them and they rely on me. I made a choice to bring them into the world and I'm not going to neglect them. I have the kids more than their mother does, and I also pay…

>If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. I've never understood this viewpoint - children are simply the most fascinating things! They're born with next to no inborn knowledge and yet have the potential to learn about quantum mechanics. Someone with the same potential would only have learned about fire some hundred thousands of years ago. In the early days you get to se…

I agree. There are lots of things about raising kids that are intellectually stimulating and fascinating. I really enjoy seeing them grow mentally and figuring out ways to help them along, and also think up ways to make things fun of course, because everyone needs fun.

For us, this has meant quite a lot of shared cultural consumption. I've bought hundreds of story books 2nd hand, and read to them, and I think it has helped their vocabulary (which is amazing). We've seen tons of children's movies together, we've played Minecraft and other comp. games together, we often play board games. I have also built things for them, like a huge outdoor swing set and a crossword puzzle game to help them get started with reading - https://puzzlepirate.net (also available as a free Android app).

There are so many things you can do with or for your kids that is fun or challenging to you also, if you just use some imagination (and have the time).

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#176

Post by rlonn »

jon-wood wrote: post #153
yomly wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. I've never understood this viewpoint - children are simply the most fascinating things! They're born with next to no inborn knowledge and yet have the potential to learn about quantum mechanics. Someone with the same potential would only have learned about fire some hundred thousands of years ago. In the early days you get to se…

On the scale of months and years children are amazing, and I agree it’s fascinating to watch as they develop into their own people. However, on the scale of hours and days they can be mind-numbingly boring, as anyone who’s played hide and seek with a four year old who repeatedly goes and hides in their bedroom cupboard can probably attest. I love my boy dearly, but I am so, so, bored of playing the first hour of Mine…

Sounds like you need to try some Minecraft mods :)

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#177

Post by ulfw »

milliondollar wrote: post #160

I made the opposite choice. I left a 7 figure a year (but 70% travel) job to take a few years off with my kids. I'm under no illusion that my kids will be that much better for it, but I will be. I am consuming this time with just absolute relish. A relationship is the sum of small things. And driving them to school is part of that overall cumulative time that ... just... matters. For me. I'm sure the kids would be gr…

Nice thing to do if you can afford it Mr. Million Dollar man. Most people can't just throw a "7 figure a year" job away.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#178

Post by electriclove »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #162

I sold my previous company and started a one man company mostly because now I can now be at home when my kids get out of school. Best decision ever. I work when they’re at school. And I work when they go to bed. No stress, no guilt, no worries. It’s awesome. I grew up on a farm. My parents were home 24/7. I liked that.

What kind of company?

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#179

Post by afiori »

cujo wrote: post #173
throwaway4378 wrote: post #164

Few days ago I saw something about “Men’s rights” movement and my first reaction was to think of it as parody and laugh it off. But then I looked at few stories and videos and it was eye opening. Many people don’t understand how badly some of the men are being exploited and even driven to suicide. Current laws in Western world are heavily tilted towards perceiving men as guilty party, someone who must always be makin…

> I understand above are rare cases and that women gets sharp end of rope far more often. And > Western society has only accepted one side of view and sexism on other side gets laughed off to oblivion. Your attempt to sound reasoned fails a bit. You sound an awful lot like a men's rights shill.

Are you claiming that it is false that sexism (independently from whether it exist or not) is laughed into oblivion, or are you simply saying is does not exist?

this would warrant a comment on how the grandparent experience of being assumed a mediocre caretaker is invalid then.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#180

Post by afiori »

dudul wrote: post #59
jumelles wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also remind myself that if I were a dad, I would be getting accolades for all the times I scheduled a doctor’s appointment or arranged a play date. > My experience as a dad is that people simply don't trust my parenting skills or assume I'm simply helping the mum out. It's incredibly sexist and somewhat hurtful. You and the author are talking about the exact same pervasive sexism from opposite perspectives.

The difference being one is talking about "how they think things would be if they were a dad", while the other is talking about the actual experience they had while being a dad. Somehow I feel like one of the two takes precedence in terms of credibility.

But they are in agreement. The same way both assuming that a [category X] can't do [stuff Y] and being positively surprised when they do are two faces of the same discrimination.
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