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Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

theatlantic.com

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Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#151

Post by watwut »

naasking wrote: post #147
watwut wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly prefer anxious person in the same room over violent one. It is that simple. If what you need is testosterone suppressant to not hit me, yes I strongly prefer you taking it over me being beaten or me doing things I did not wanted to for fear of your aggression. It is better for you too, assuming cops and courts will do the thing they are supposed to - putting you in prison. Fortunately, men generally…

> I would strongly prefer anxious person in the same room over violent one. It is that simple. False equivalency. "More violent" does not mean "violent". Kids rough housing are technically being violent. Are you really worried about that? > All of these are kids making better choices. Or it's kids not having natural impulses that are inherent to all human beings. And that would be a serious problem.

More anxiety does not mean constantly trembling from fear either.

Difference against violence of past generation is NOT kids rough housing. It was real fights, real hits, real injuries. Real robbery, real violence toward (say) partners, real knife or real gun. Nice manipulative technique you used. But you know what? If there are less kids bullying other kids, that is good thing too. Because while "rough housing" between two consenting kids is fine, one kid bullying the other is often called rough housing by those who want to pretend every thing is fine.

Keeping control over natural impulse to not use condom, to have random sex, to take heroin, to hit other people is a good thing. We have many natural impulses that are better off to be controlled. All of these harm not just the person who is doing it, but others too.

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#152

Post by yuhe00 »

defterGoose wrote: post #53
gambiting wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand.....surely there is some value to being able to communicate instantly with people from vastly different geographies and backgrounds? Like, I'm talking daily to two guys from about 4000km away, and I don't even know what they look like - we just help each other on a gamedev group. If I have an issue with my car I can go to a dedicated group for that model on FB and ask literally hundreds of owners a…

This point always gets made in any similar discussions. I think on it's face it makes sense; why wouldn't a freer flow of information be good? But I've come to believe that maybe this is too simplistic a view of the actual effects. History teaches us that people are strongly tribalistic. While it's true that disparate groups can sometimes come together and augment their success, it's also true that proximity often ca…

I agree. It's true that it is easier than ever to have instant access to just about anyone in the world, but because it's so easy, we become less interested in actually investing in people and forming lasting bonds. Why bother when we can get what we need without? What used to be genuine connections formed by necessity and shared experiences have now become quick and easy transactions. Social media and the gig economy have made interpersonal relations into fast food, and the world feels smaller and less fullfilling because of it.

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#153

Post by learnstats2 »

dTal wrote: post #76
learnstats2 wrote: post #48

This article/researcher makes claims that: a) there is a mental health crisis among teenagers which is not parallel to other comparable generations, and b) that crisis is linked to mobile phones. I'm not convinced by either claim. In my experience of working with teenagers over the last couple of decades, there is a general trend that they are now better at communicating their emotional needs and emotional state. If…

> ...today's teenagers: get in less car accidents, have less risky sex, have a lower rate of teenage pregnancy, ingest less risky substances, are generally less violent - and presents this all as bad because it is different than what came before. Is it bad? It might well be, depending on the reason. We'd also probably see those effects if there was mass depression. Or if we simply locked up all teens at all times. Wh…

There is a known strong relationship between risky behaviour and depression - a positive one.

If people were more depressed, we would normally expect to see MORE of these risk-taking behaviours, not less.

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#154

Post by learnstats2 »

petronio wrote: post #87
detaro wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more that most societies have "doing work" as a core component of obtaining money, and requiring money for things like food, housing, ...

That is also true, but that is something that can be mitigated and resolved with government policies. However, that is unlikely to happen effectively in societies that have a work as a core component of personal value as they will say "they're not working? Why should we help them?" At some point the policy changes will NEED to happen, but the societies with that core value will have a very difficult time adjusting as…

It can be mitigated but it isn't being mitigated.

At some point those changes will need to happen, as you say, but it would be better if we didn't reach the point of needing a revolution to get there.

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#155

Post by learnstats2 »

naasking wrote: post #96
learnstats2 wrote: post #48

This article/researcher makes claims that: a) there is a mental health crisis among teenagers which is not parallel to other comparable generations, and b) that crisis is linked to mobile phones. I'm not convinced by either claim. In my experience of working with teenagers over the last couple of decades, there is a general trend that they are now better at communicating their emotional needs and emotional state. If…

> This article/researcher makes claims that: a) there is a mental health crisis among teenagers which is not parallel to other comparable generations, and b) that crisis is linked to mobile phones. I'm not convinced by either claim. You probably should be, because there are objective markers that don't depend on communication: https://twitter.com/JonHaidt/status/1083015453151318016 > The article identifies that today…

Thanks for referencing Twitter, I hadn't thought to check that as a research source.

The graph of suicide rates linked goes back to 1999.

Suicide rate often tracks economic cycles - for example, the suicide rate was 50% higher in the 1920s than it is now.

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#156

Post by learnstats2 »

g00s3_caLL_x2 wrote: post #126
learnstats2 wrote: post #48

This article/researcher makes claims that: a) there is a mental health crisis among teenagers which is not parallel to other comparable generations, and b) that crisis is linked to mobile phones. I'm not convinced by either claim. In my experience of working with teenagers over the last couple of decades, there is a general trend that they are now better at communicating their emotional needs and emotional state. If…

One curiosity on your comment I noticed: You claim 'working with teenagers over the last couple of decades' while making the delineation of 'her generation of 47-year olds'. Even if you began working with teens at 20, 'decades' would put you in your 40's as well? If that is the case, why try and separate your self from the same demographic?

Well... I'm just gonna have to quote the article:

"In earlier eras, kids worked in great numbers, eager to finance their freedom or prodded by their parents to learn the value of a dollar."

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#157

Post by newsgremlin »

crakhamster01 wrote: post #134
newsgremlin wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My crucial concern is whether the newer generations are expressing themselves in meaningful ways. Social media is ok for talking about ones emotions and sharing experiences through it. But what about expression through music, art, literature? Are they being hampered by consuming media instead of creating or are we just unaware of the vast creative talents that go unnoticed? Given uncertain economic times I'd expect a…

If anything, social media has enabled newer generations to express themselves in "meaningful" ways more than ever. It may not be as a full-time profession, but plenty of people create for hobby. See: the hundreds of thousands of IG/Youtube accounts for musicians, designers, artists, and amateur poets.

Ofcourse we see so many creative people on IG/Youtube I subscribe to those who make meaningful content that inspires me, but there are many more who consume that content, but not create their own, and that's the trap I think a lot of people fall in. That's where people realise they don't actually have any real hobbies.

And that's another thing, we shouldn't need social media to feel validated or to compare, people should feel accomplishment in solace of their hobby. Sometimes the expectations of having a huge following online can even have a negative effect on the mental health of online artists. I see many talk about their own struggles and the pressures of being creative (especially the ones who start to make a living off it).

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#158

Post by g00s3_caLL_x2 »

learnstats2 wrote: post #156
g00s3_caLL_x2 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One curiosity on your comment I noticed: You claim 'working with teenagers over the last couple of decades' while making the delineation of 'her generation of 47-year olds'. Even if you began working with teens at 20, 'decades' would put you in your 40's as well? If that is the case, why try and separate your self from the same demographic?

Well... I'm just gonna have to quote the article: "In earlier eras, kids worked in great numbers, eager to finance their freedom or prodded by their parents to learn the value of a dollar."

I'm sorry but I don't follow. That is no way answers my question.

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#159

Post by SignalsFromBob »

learnstats2 wrote: post #48

This article/researcher makes claims that: a) there is a mental health crisis among teenagers which is not parallel to other comparable generations, and b) that crisis is linked to mobile phones. I'm not convinced by either claim. In my experience of working with teenagers over the last couple of decades, there is a general trend that they are now better at communicating their emotional needs and emotional state. If…

> The author expresses great surprise that people sleep with their phones beside their bed - whereas, it is a great surprise to me that she doesn't. It has an extremely useful function as an alarm clock.

You misread the article. Not beside their bed, but in the bed with them.

Re: Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation? (2017)

#160

Post by iliketosleep »

pygy_ wrote: post #92
iliketosleep wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> automation and artifical intelligence Isn't this supposed to be good for us and make people's lives better? If that's not the case, then it's really something to be worried about.

Life is fundamentally about getting resources to sustain yourself. In that regard, humanity is, more and more dependent on the industry. At the same time, the industry is less and less dependent on humanity, since it is deriving more and more of its power and intelligence from machines. We will probably reach a point the industry doesn't improve its survival ability by feeding and serving people. If that happens we w…

Very interesting thoughts. It does seem we're heading towards some kind of technological dystopia, but there is an increasing minority of people who are aware of it. I can see it leading to some kind of schism.
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