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I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

nytimes.com

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Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#111

Post by zamfi »

refurb wrote: post #104
rayiner wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “selfish” remark rings pretty hollow when you’re talking about someone that is literally spending her time freeing wrongfully convicted people. What Ms. Bazelon is doing is the opposite of selfish. She’s providing for her family, serving her profession, and serving her community. She’s teaching her kids good morals by example: hard work and service. What kind of terrible lesson would it be to her children if she…

It’s still selfish because she is sacrificing her children’s upbringing to help wrongfully convicted people. Sacrificing some other person for a cause you believe in is certainly not a selfless act.

Why do you think the kid is “sacrificed” by the parent pursuing meaningful-to-them work over attending a school event?

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#112

Post by icu »

MRD85 wrote: post #14

I made the opposite choice. I'm a single father and I've prioritised my children over my career. I'm not going to pretend it's an amazing lifestyle. If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. However, I love them and they rely on me. I made a choice to bring them into the world and I'm not going to neglect them. I have the kids more than their mother does, and I also pay…

Hang in there! Excellence is dedication to completion, and by the sound of things, you are doing an excellent job.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#113

Post by lukego »

jedberg wrote: post #50

> I also remind myself that if I were a dad, I would be getting accolades for all the times I scheduled a doctor’s appointment or arranged a play date. 1000 times this. If I take the kids to the store, or through airport security, or pretty much anywhere, women are practically running over to "help" me. Thank you but I got it. Go help that poor mom over there with three meltdowns to deal with, she needs it a lot more…

This is very cultural too. Some places it's expected that dads take care of kids equally with mums.

I heard a great anecdote about a Manhattanite visiting Stockholm on vacation. Lots of men pushing prams all around town. "My goodness, look at all the young male nannies in Sweden!"

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#114

Post by icu »

n1000 wrote: post #105

I am that child. My parents were very eager to make a great career. Today I suffer from the emotional neglect with some issues such as ADHD. Being a father myself today, I do think kids can do with relatively little facetime. But the time that is devoted to them must be exclusive quality time that makes it clear you love them and that you are present. There are studies that have shown that if fathers take 30 minutes…

It may be helpful to look into the Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE) test and the research around it. It helped me gain an objective perspective and overcome patterns of family dysfunction that impacted my psychology.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#115

Post by bubblewrap »

Typical New York Times, and typical for that kind of discussion.

In such discussions, the image is always of a mother resigning from an interesting and important academic job. Presumably it is mostly academics who discuss such things, and NYT readers are also mostly academics. So when they think of mothers and careers, they think of interesting academic jobs.

In reality, most women (and men) don't have such interesting jobs. The most common job for women is shop assistant, followed by nurse (or vice versa, don't remember for sure - numbers from Germany a couple of years ago). Now nurse might be reasonably interesting, but not irreplaceable like that lawyer. And arguably, you would be doing the same job as at home (changing diapers), only not with your children.

Sorry it annoys me that this women styles herself like some sort of hero, when other people are forced to make that choice out of financial necessity.

Obviously it is a valid choice to prioritize her job, like she did. The annoying part is the claim between the lines that she is somehow special and going against the societal pressure.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#117

Post by funnybeam »

kuerbel wrote: post #97
react_burger38 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small correction -- members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (of which I am one) don't have to give up on caffeine. There were some people who taught and practiced that, but that is largely in the past. Even BYU, the church-owned school, now sells fully-caffeinated Coke on campus. This was a fairly recent development. As well, members are encouraged to avoid any media that includes sexually explicit…

As an atheist, that sounds terrible. Also there is some legit criticism: taken from wikipedia (where you can see the sources): It also warns members to "avoid independent thinking", claiming such thinking "was introduced by Satan the Devil" and would "cause division". Those who openly disagree with official teachings are condemned as "apostates" who are "mentally diseased". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s…

As another atheist, that sounds (taken at face value) pretty good to me. Community is massively missing for many people and having a structure that provides that is very attractive.

Not disputing your points, just would be nice to have an equivalent without the religion and other negative side effects

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#118

Post by bubblewrap »

jedberg wrote: post #50

> I also remind myself that if I were a dad, I would be getting accolades for all the times I scheduled a doctor’s appointment or arranged a play date. 1000 times this. If I take the kids to the store, or through airport security, or pretty much anywhere, women are practically running over to "help" me. Thank you but I got it. Go help that poor mom over there with three meltdowns to deal with, she needs it a lot more…

Not my experience (in Germany). Sometimes people (mostly women) assume I am taking a day off for daddy time and give me some sort of mini applause. But that is pretty rare.

More notable is perhaps the gender distribution on the playground. I do think it is easier for moms to connect/bond with each other. Like if I plan an excursion and wonder what friends of my kids could join, I find it more difficult to simply ask another mom. Might just be me, though.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#119

Post by n1000 »

icu wrote: post #114
n1000 wrote: post #105

I am that child. My parents were very eager to make a great career. Today I suffer from the emotional neglect with some issues such as ADHD. Being a father myself today, I do think kids can do with relatively little facetime. But the time that is devoted to them must be exclusive quality time that makes it clear you love them and that you are present. There are studies that have shown that if fathers take 30 minutes…

It may be helpful to look into the Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE) test and the research around it. It helped me gain an objective perspective and overcome patterns of family dysfunction that impacted my psychology.

Interesting! Yes, childhood trauma can be one outcome of neglect. Any articles you can recommend in particular?

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#120

Post by permatech »

rayiner wrote: post #64
jedberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the immigrant parents that own a Chinese restaurant open seven days a week make it to any of their kids school functions or camping trips? Are they being irreparably damaged? Based on my experience going to college with a few kids like that, yes. They all resented their childhood and the fact that the only way to see their parents was to work in the restaurant.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

And yet so many Chinese continue to come to the US, it’s almost as if this bad ideas actually make a happier society
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