Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 358 posts

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#81

Post by seanmcdirmid »

benatkin wrote: post #55
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Musk even have kids? Dang, according to wiki, he has 5 living kids.

Had to know what happened to the other kid(s) and whether it was just one: "Their first son, Nevada Alexander Musk, died of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) at the age of 10 weeks." More interestingly, the five are two twins and three triplets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

Wouldn’t that mean fertility drugs were probably involved? Anyways, I guess he really likes kids, which is a bit surprising.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#82

Post by barry-cotter »

macspoofing wrote: post #19
rayiner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between parents who are absent because they don’t care, and parents who are absent because they have a lot of work to do. My dad worked overseas and was gone for 30-40% of the year when I was a kid. Grew up to have a great relationship with him, because when he was here he was always attentive. (Not in the sense of spending a lot of time with us—he worked 60 hour weeks stateside. But in the sens…

>because when he was here he was always attentive. That doesn't sounds like the author. Kids will understand if a parent is away because they are working to make their (i.e. the kid's) life better. My father worked long hours, sometimes multiple jobs, all his life for little money, as did my mother. Even though they weren't around for some of my recitals or Christmas pageants, I respect them both that much more becau…

Some people are bitter and resentful and would have had the exact same childhood you did and think their parents weren’t there for them. People in extremely similar circumstances feel very differently about them all the time, often enough within the same family.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#83

Post by EdwardDiego »

rayiner wrote: post #58
Dayshine wrote: post #51

> 6) It's impossible to perfectly balance a 40 hour working week and family. Best you can aim for is a kind of homeostasis where work suffers for family one week and then family suffers a bit for work the next. The article refers to things like: > But there is always another client to defend, story to write or struggling student who just can’t wait. Here are things I have missed: my daughter’s seventh birthday, my so…

Americans assign a silly and unjustified sentimental value to things like birthday parties and school outings. Part of my wife’s family is Jehovah’s witnesses, who don’t even celebrate birthdays. Are those kids somehow missing out? Do you think the immigrant parents that own a Chinese restaurant open seven days a week make it to any of their kids school functions or camping trips? Are they being irreparably damaged?

> Are those kids somehow missing out?

According to my children who went from not celebrating birthdays to celebrating them - yes.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#84

Post by barry-cotter »

macspoofing wrote: post #44
rayiner wrote: post #2

I love this article. Parents today spend more than twice as much time today with their kids today than fifty years ago: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-... . Fat lot of good that did the last couple of generations. Parents spend too much time apologizing for prioritizing their careers, and it’s particularly unfair to women. Studies repeatedly fail to show significant and durable results fr…

>Parents today spend more than twice as much time today with their kids today than fifty years ago That's a good point but there's some detail missing here: how are the kids being raised. Historically, kids were raised within a tribal or quasi-tribal structure. When you have grandparents, siblings, cousins, uncles and aunts always around, room to play and explore, you don't need parents to be there 24/7 hovering over…

> Historically, kids were raised within a tribal or quasi-tribal structure. When you have grandparents, siblings, cousins, uncles and aunts always around, room to play and explore, you don't need parents to be there 24/7 hovering over you. You learn independence as well as a way to interact and negotiate with others.

Mostly untrue in Western Europe for more than 500 years[1] and very much untrue in North America, to an even greater extent, since after WWII especially, but also before. Relatively late marriage and forming a new household upon marriage has been the norm in Western Europe since the 1500s in the North Sea region. North America was different in having earlier marriage because of labour scarcity and land abundance but nuclear families rather than extended family households were the norm in every decade and century among European descended peoples and those who assimilate to their culture.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_patt...

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#85

Post by rayiner »

wishinghand wrote: post #72
rayiner wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

> No wonder China is eating our lunch! Slave like conditions can do that to a more moderate work-life balance culture.

There is lot of room between “slave like conditions” and the modern American trend of decadent children and adolescents that live in a state of extended infancy well into their 20s. From 1948 to 2000, the teenage labor force participation rate was 45-55%. Since 2000 it has dropped dramatically, to just 35% last year.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#86

Post by barry-cotter »

rayiner wrote: post #64
jedberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the immigrant parents that own a Chinese restaurant open seven days a week make it to any of their kids school functions or camping trips? Are they being irreparably damaged? Based on my experience going to college with a few kids like that, yes. They all resented their childhood and the fact that the only way to see their parents was to work in the restaurant.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

Having lived in China for seven years I see no sign that the Chinese have eaten, are eating, or are going to eat America’s lunch. Growth at the technological frontier is about what the best are doing and diffuses from there. I am unaware of any academic field or major industry where the US is not in the top three, hardly surprising given its 5% of global population and 25% of global economic activity. As long as the US has enough strivers and hard workers it can afford plenty of slackers.

The only way for the US’ relative position not to decline with China’s rise involve megadeaths, just as after WWII it’s relative power could only decline.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#87

Post by barry-cotter »

rayiner wrote: post #85
wishinghand wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No wonder China is eating our lunch! Slave like conditions can do that to a more moderate work-life balance culture.

There is lot of room between “slave like conditions” and the modern American trend of decadent children and adolescents that live in a state of extended infancy well into their 20s. From 1948 to 2000, the teenage labor force participation rate was 45-55%. Since 2000 it has dropped dramatically, to just 35% last year.

“Extended infancy”? Really? Protracted adolescence sure, a giant pointless distraction fine, a diversion from things you value, ok, but infancy? Infants and children do not take time off to find themselves, travel, take a career break or whatever in particular you don’t value about this American (and Western) cultural tendency.

If you don’t want your children to do this what are you going to do about it? Help them get real jobs without going to college? Accelerate their paths into professional jobs by accelerating their academic careers? Because if you don’t do something out of the ordinary you’re going to get pretty much the same results as other people in your position.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#88

Post by EdwardDiego »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #36

I'm a single father of five who obtained full-time custody last year, and trying to balance work and parenting is a never-ending challenge. Some of my observations: 1) Kids have a great time with other kids, so don't feel bad about daycare. Having them at home full-time past the age of 2 is, I think, more about the parent than the child. 2) Sometimes kids just suck, and work can be a glorious escape. 3) School life i…

And because I left it too late to edit it in.

7) You will feel, at times, like you're letting down everyone equally, workmates and children both. And you just have to ride with it.

And I've found that workmates will notice your child related late starts or early finishes, and resent them. The only solution is communication. And a decent employer.

Our work culture also assumes two people families to an extent.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#89

Post by dang »

Dayshine wrote: post #51

> 6) It's impossible to perfectly balance a 40 hour working week and family. Best you can aim for is a kind of homeostasis where work suffers for family one week and then family suffers a bit for work the next. The article refers to things like: > But there is always another client to defend, story to write or struggling student who just can’t wait. Here are things I have missed: my daughter’s seventh birthday, my so…

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

(We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315373)

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#90

Post by lotsofpulp »

rayiner wrote: post #58
Dayshine wrote: post #51

> 6) It's impossible to perfectly balance a 40 hour working week and family. Best you can aim for is a kind of homeostasis where work suffers for family one week and then family suffers a bit for work the next. The article refers to things like: > But there is always another client to defend, story to write or struggling student who just can’t wait. Here are things I have missed: my daughter’s seventh birthday, my so…

Americans assign a silly and unjustified sentimental value to things like birthday parties and school outings. Part of my wife’s family is Jehovah’s witnesses, who don’t even celebrate birthdays. Are those kids somehow missing out? Do you think the immigrant parents that own a Chinese restaurant open seven days a week make it to any of their kids school functions or camping trips? Are they being irreparably damaged?

I had immigrant parents who had to work all the time to build and grow their business, so I didn’t have birthdays and that kind of stuff. I don’t care about that kind of stuff at all, not to say that I hate it or anything.

I haven’t studied other children, so I can only make statements about myself. The only negative of my childhood regarding the lack of birthdays and whatnot is the inability to feign excitement for others’ celebrations as much as might be expected, simply because I don’t care about it for myself in the first place. It probably has hampered my ability to socialize or make networking connections in some situations where I wasn’t able to fit in.

Post reply on HN