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“The books will stop working.”

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Re: “The books will stop working.”

#441

Post by la_barba »

kexx wrote: post #439
la_barba wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As another hypothetical... if it were impossible to pirate Windows, would it be nearly as popular around the world? Why Windows became popular will never have a single unarguable objective answer. It was probably a combination of factors, like anything else. The only fact we know is that Microsoft became one the most successful and richest companies, and it was because hundreds of millions of people paid Microsoft f…

Microsoft did not grow big, because millions of home users decided to buy DOS/Windows as they considered the best choice. Microsoft purchased DOS, which was bundled for every single IBM PC. This gave the foundation for the company to be able to improve their software family giving them a stable income even if every single DOS alternative was superior to their system. IBM was not able to prevent the creation of the PC…

>Microsoft did not grow big, because millions of home users decided to buy DOS/Windows as they considered the best choice.

Yes, things don't get popular primarily because they're the best in class. They get popular because of a variety of factors. That applies to all tech products that are popular - Photoshop, oracle, mysql, windows, macOS, Linux, iphones, android phones, etc, etc, etc. MS, like every other company started at 0% market share. People chose to use their products because they provided some value to them. If you don't think people bought MS products because they were good, thats OK, you can have that opinion. Whether or not MS software is shitty has no real bearing on my point here.

>And that's how piracy helped MS, children playing with computer games arrived in the work market with familiarity with MS products, which kept the companies using and buying those products.

Without any numbers or data, I will just have to accept your argument at face value. I'd love to see verified stats of sales versus users/installations. Will be easy to confirm exactly how much of an effect it had...

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#442

Post by quickthrower2 »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #387
quickthrower2 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Count yourself lucky. Most of us developers cant even read the code we wrote in a professional setting once we leave a company.

This idea that the original authors of the source code don't have any right to that source code (they're not even listed as authors most of the time), seems like a contradiction. If copyright is so important, why is it so easily stripped from its authors in some fields? It makes more sense when you understand that copyright was hardly ever about protecting authors, but about protecting the interests of the more power…

I think it fits in with the general idea of factories where you work for a salary and the work product you produce isn’t something you can take away. The problem with words or code is they are easy to copy, so one could easily make a copy and take it away. I guess that’s why they make you sign away the copyright

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#443

Post by Retra »

la_barba wrote: post #437
Retra wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you also respect the freedom of a creator to choose a license and a distribution method of their liking for their works? It seems like you don't. It seems like you want to peddle a narrative. Otherwise you wouldn't be jumping to conclusions about things you have no knowledge of. >Well, your comments seem to indicate that you find many things wrong with the copyright law. My comments are not referring to the merit…

What you said: > Real life doesn't have any policy either, if you have the capability, you're free to copy & distribute what you have access to or not. It is a third party that is trying to interfere with these native abilities. Your comment indicates that you feel its your right to be able to infringe on copyright. >My objection is the use of the word 'entitlement,' which is nothing more than a propagandist term her…

My comment indicates that the world is complicated and that we don't need to paint people's behaviors are unreasonable just because they happen to be unlawful.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#444

Post by drngdds »

IanSanders wrote: post #384
Crinus wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying authors directly doesn't mean the book will not have DRM nor using an intermediate book selling service mean that they will have DRM. The problem is having DRM, not how the book authors are paid.

Perhaps authors would be more inclined to distribute content DRM-free, and consumers to pay. Some use this model already, for example Nine Inch Nails and Griz (may be wrong)

Pretty much all paid music downloads are DRM-free now. There is usually a distributor like Bandcamp that takes a cut, but that's because most artists aren't going to host their own payment system and file servers.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#445

Post by loup-vaillant »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #442
loup-vaillant wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea that the original authors of the source code don't have any right to that source code (they're not even listed as authors most of the time), seems like a contradiction. If copyright is so important, why is it so easily stripped from its authors in some fields? It makes more sense when you understand that copyright was hardly ever about protecting authors, but about protecting the interests of the more power…

I think it fits in with the general idea of factories where you work for a salary and the work product you produce isn’t something you can take away. The problem with words or code is they are easy to copy, so one could easily make a copy and take it away. I guess that’s why they make you sign away the copyright

The factory analogy is pretty good. Profit doesn't really goes to the workers, it goes to the owners. And one critical property of capitalism is that owners and workers aren't the same people at all.

Having programmers sign off their copyright has the same effect as classical capitalism: it separates whoever owns the code from whoever works on it. The owners can then enjoy the full royalties, while the programmers are limited to their salaries —just like the factory workers.

Factory workers could walk away with the fruits of their labour, if only they owned the factory. Programmers could walk away with the fruits of their labour, if only they retained the rights to them. And in my opinion, they both should. The means of production should be owned by the workers, not the capitalists.

If on the other hand you agree with capitalism, it makes perfect sense to have programmers sign away their rights.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#446

Post by anoncake »

la_barba wrote: post #430
anoncake wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A principled person would chose to take his/her business elsewhere and purchase a book on a platform whose ethics they agree with. A principled person would follow their own principles which may be different from yours.

Infringing on copyright law to play a game or a movie doesn't quite have the same 'civil disobedience' ring to it as fighting slavery.

It doesn't have to be a heroic act, just morally neutral.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#447

Post by dredmorbius »

la_barba wrote: post #428
dredmorbius wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the hypothetical case of OS piracy was false, explicitly acknowledged by the creator of the OS in question. Microsoft's DRM on their own software is quite intentionally weak. Enforcement via audits (through its proxy arm, the BSA, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_(The_Software_Alliance) ), has been the preferred method.

I hope you realize that "more" vs "less" DRM, is not the same as DRM vs no-DRM. In any case, I don't see anything I can respond to.. so.. thanks for the comment.

Again: not the point I'm addressing.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#448

Post by ric2b »

la_barba wrote: post #427
jforberg wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Virtually all Server OSs get hacked/have had security bugs. Nobody should use them to host or store anything." Your comparison is flawed. Most server installations are not broken into during their lifetime. But it only takes one copy of a movie getting onto thepiratebay to make it accessible to everyone who wants it. So if DRM cannot prevent every attempt at circumvention, it's useless and can only serve to hinder…

>But it only takes one copy of a movie getting onto thepiratebay to make it accessible to everyone who wants it. Unlocking the DRM on that one movie allows you to pirate that one movie, not all movies. Finding a security bug for one OS allows you to exploit that particular OS. >So if DRM cannot prevent every attempt at circumvention, it's useless and can only serve to hinder legitimate use of the product. No, if some…

> Your broad claim that DRM == disrespecting consumers doesn't seem to be borne out by the market. So it seems we've reached a bit of an impasse.

So Comcast customers feel respected? Feeling respected isn't the only variable at play.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#449

Post by ineedasername »

tremon wrote: post #400
ineedasername wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not reward creators who choose to distribute their works without DRM? Your average author doesn't have a choice in this, they have no clout to dictate terms to their publishers over the inclusion of DRM

But it is us, consumers, who don't give the authors the clout they need, by continuing to buy DRM'd content.

Because we rarely have the choice. I'd wager it's a conservative estimate to say 90% of published content is under drm restrictions. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more like 99%.

And what of students with textbooks? Zero choice for alternatives there, and increasingly even the physical versions all come with required drmed additional single-use content making resale value of the book worhtless when once it was a source of a bit of extra money after spending hundreds on them at the start of the semester.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#450

Post by thirdsun »

logifail wrote: post #84

My grandmother is in her late 90s, has dementia, and is in a care home. My mother sent me this update last week: > Went to see Granny yesterday, was quite cheerful, read though the poems in "When we were very young"[0], her original copy[1], given to her in 1928, how about that. She knows them off by heart and joins in when you read them to her Q: When we're in our late 90s, how many of us will be able to consume 90-…

And that is why I still buy my all my music. Digitally, but lossless, DRM-free and forever mine. Another concern to me is the limited selection on streaming services, particularly when it comes to rare and old releases.
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