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Microsoft's Linux Kernel

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Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#241

Post by Osiris »

ndarwincorn wrote: post #173
jeremyjh wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are things that don't work well though, classic example are laptops that dynamically switch between discrete and integrated graphics. You'll probably run everything on the dedicated GPU which hurts battery life. Still, my old desktop scanner that the manufacturer stopped publishing drives for during the Windows Vista era? Yeah Linux runs it like a boss. No looking up drivers or config parameters on the internet…

> classic example are laptops that dynamically switch between discrete and integrated graphics YMMV, but as far as I know that's more or less a solved problem by default (for X anyway) with DRI3. This particular complaint echoes folks (I was one) who booted Ubuntu desktop a decade ago and couldn't get wifi to work, and proceeded to complain about shoddy driver support (to present day, clearly), using only that single…

I spent a lot of time trying to get dynamic switching working and after countless hours I gave up.

Optimus is definitely not a "solved problem", unless you know some method I didn't find in my dozens of hours of googling how to get it to work on a system76 laptop (Linux preinstalled) and a 2012 MacBook.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#242

Post by mtzet »

fortran77 wrote: post #191
robrtsql wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP is probably referring to the fact that running Docker on Windows and macOS is accomplished by running a Linux VM which the Docker containers run in. Not that Docker containers are VMs.

I didn't know that macOS users don't run Docker natively! On Windows, it's native: https://docs.docker.com/docker-for-windows/

Docker desktop runs a Hyper-V VM. Prior to that, Docker used a Virtualbox VM on Windows. The current plan seems to be to integrate with WSL2 once that ships [1].

[1] https://engineering.docker.com/2019/06/docker-hearts-wsl-2/

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#243

Post by cameronbrown »

meruru wrote: post #158
cameronbrown wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably an unpopular opinion but.. there is a lot of value in having multiple competing kernels. In the same vein as browser engines, any monoculture is a bad idea. Not to mention there's been a lot of good work done on the NT kernel itself. Under the hood it's pretty advanced, even with all the user-space cruft on top.

We don't need NT to have competing kernels. All of the following have their own kernels: + FreeBSD + OpenBSD + NetBSD + DragonFlyBSD + Minix + Haiku + Redox + Plan 9 + SeL4 + Fuchsia And many more.

Dozens and dozens of UNIX kernels (with Fuchsia being the exception I believe..? Not sure). Yes I know kernels have far outgrown POSIX, but it's still a form of monoculture. Diversity in all dimensions matters imo.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#244

Post by snaky »

dehrmann wrote: post #237
jdoliner wrote: post #6

My brain threw an exception when I read this title. Awesome that this is a reality though. Now that we have a Linux kernels running and accessible on both Windows and Chromebooks I feel like we can finally say: 2019 actually is the year of Linux on the desktop. It's not a meme anymore, it's finally just a true statement. Edit: To those questioning if this really counts as Linux on the Desktop. Yes, I understand what…

While people nitpick over what "linux desktop" means, don't lose sight of the fact that general purpose computing is slowly dying and being replaced by iOS and Android. Roughly as many iPhones are sold per year as desktops and laptops combined.

OTOH considering Termux popularity, you may say that general purpose computing on Android is growing rapidly.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#245

Post by Hawxy »

alexanderdmitri wrote: post #69
falcrist wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Microsoft, this part is almost inevitable. Same with Google/Microsoft and privacy...

10 years ago I would have thought it unthinkable a Windows machine would be sending data behind the scenes about me to a remote server. This privacy policy[1] is insane: > Together, diagnostics and feedback are how you and your Windows 10 device tell Microsoft what's really going on. As you use Windows, we collect diagnostic information, and to make sure we're listening to you, our customer, we've also built ways for…

It's not really that insane. Microsoft just provides a very detailed privacy policy that covers every single possible scenario and clearly explains it to the user.

In any generic platform privacy policy, the same lines you quoted from their privacy statement would be summed up as "We collect [insert here] as required for operational and security reasons", "We use your data to perform business functions" and "Your data may be shared with third-party service providers such as payment processors". It's nothing scary and is what's required for Microsoft to operate as an entity.

I'd also be careful how you interpret it. Microsoft's privacy statement applies to literally every single product and service they offer and acts as a catch-all, and from there they have independent statements that cover individual products in more detail.

In this case, the diagnostics and feedback page describes all of the scenarios that they collect and use the information, and therefore the global statement isn't relevant.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#246

Post by ComodoHacker »

vbezhenar wrote: post #230
jdoliner wrote: post #6

My brain threw an exception when I read this title. Awesome that this is a reality though. Now that we have a Linux kernels running and accessible on both Windows and Chromebooks I feel like we can finally say: 2019 actually is the year of Linux on the desktop. It's not a meme anymore, it's finally just a true statement. Edit: To those questioning if this really counts as Linux on the Desktop. Yes, I understand what…

Installing Linux in VirtualBox is not hard. If anything, it's extremely easy. Microsoft does not bring anything substantial, you could use Linux in VirtualBox since forever and they just bundle it in their OS. Windows just getting worse and worse. I was amazed when they decided to develop Linux syscall layer, but now it's just extremely lazy approach. Hey, guys, we don't have enough money to build proper Linux layer,…

>Microsoft does not bring anything substantial

Microsoft brings integration not possible in VM. You can actually make Linux tools part of your complex heterogeneous workflow.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#247

Post by newnewpdro »

jdoliner wrote: post #6

My brain threw an exception when I read this title. Awesome that this is a reality though. Now that we have a Linux kernels running and accessible on both Windows and Chromebooks I feel like we can finally say: 2019 actually is the year of Linux on the desktop. It's not a meme anymore, it's finally just a true statement. Edit: To those questioning if this really counts as Linux on the Desktop. Yes, I understand what…

Running Linux in a VM under Windows is not a new capability, nor is this convenience development particularly helpful to Linux's long term support of modern desktop hardware if it results in what would be new linux-on-metal users never bothering and instead using Windows as a driver layer for Linux VMs.

Chrome and Windows using the Linux kernel as a POSIX support layer is only going to diminish the Linux desktop community and the quality of its modern hardware support.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#248

Post by meruru »

dehrmann wrote: post #237
jdoliner wrote: post #6

My brain threw an exception when I read this title. Awesome that this is a reality though. Now that we have a Linux kernels running and accessible on both Windows and Chromebooks I feel like we can finally say: 2019 actually is the year of Linux on the desktop. It's not a meme anymore, it's finally just a true statement. Edit: To those questioning if this really counts as Linux on the Desktop. Yes, I understand what…

While people nitpick over what "linux desktop" means, don't lose sight of the fact that general purpose computing is slowly dying and being replaced by iOS and Android. Roughly as many iPhones are sold per year as desktops and laptops combined.

One contributing factor to that statistic it that the phone lifecycle is a lot shorter than the desktop/laptop lifecycle. Also desktops and laptops are more likely to be shared between family members. The point is people still have access to and use traditional computers.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#249

Post by meruru »

cameronbrown wrote: post #243
meruru wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need NT to have competing kernels. All of the following have their own kernels: + FreeBSD + OpenBSD + NetBSD + DragonFlyBSD + Minix + Haiku + Redox + Plan 9 + SeL4 + Fuchsia And many more.

Dozens and dozens of UNIX kernels (with Fuchsia being the exception I believe..? Not sure). Yes I know kernels have far outgrown POSIX, but it's still a form of monoculture. Diversity in all dimensions matters imo.

I'm not sure anything below Minix can be considered a UNIX kernel.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#250

Post by dingu »

ndarwincorn wrote: post #173
jeremyjh wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are things that don't work well though, classic example are laptops that dynamically switch between discrete and integrated graphics. You'll probably run everything on the dedicated GPU which hurts battery life. Still, my old desktop scanner that the manufacturer stopped publishing drives for during the Windows Vista era? Yeah Linux runs it like a boss. No looking up drivers or config parameters on the internet…

> classic example are laptops that dynamically switch between discrete and integrated graphics YMMV, but as far as I know that's more or less a solved problem by default (for X anyway) with DRI3. This particular complaint echoes folks (I was one) who booted Ubuntu desktop a decade ago and couldn't get wifi to work, and proceeded to complain about shoddy driver support (to present day, clearly), using only that single…

> YMMV, but as far as I know that's more or less a solved problem by default (for X anyway) with DRI3.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA_Optimus

LOL. What a bunch of crap.

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