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Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

wsj.com

241–250 of 336 posts

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#241
Back when I worked at NeXT we created a lights-out factory in Fremont, CA and then closed it. Steve said that we were moving it offshore to be closer to where the parts were manufactured. At the same time, I was told by some employees who worked on creating the automated factory that the real reason for moving it was completely different. They told me that the goal was to sell it to a group of Executives who could then charge the company for manufacturing the machines and avoid US taxes by sending the money offshore as a business expense. It was sold to a group of Executives so that they could avoid any one Executive being technically in "control" of the offshore. I was also told that the group of Executives included theoretical "competitors", and they traded "favors" for shared ownership.

I can't confirm any of this - but it is consistent with other things done to avoid taxes. (Steve was once successfully prosecuted for avoiding taxes using an offshore. After that, he got better accountants to make sure his tax dodges could withstand legal scrutiny.)

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#242
post #21

Back in the day, my international economics professor told me corporations will set up, and base their business out of the countries that they see as the most stable. Because of this, it scares me when I see headlines like this, even though it is only production. If anyone has a counterpoint to what he said, I am very interested in hearing it

I think that is giving CEO's and corporate boards way, way more credit for long term thinking than they deserve. Corporations base their business out of whatever gives them the best result over the time period when they expect to be involved. If it's a founder, that is a lifetime commitment, probably, unless the founder is intending to sell to a larger business. But in any other case, the CEO and all of the other hig…

I don't think that is true of Apple given the scale of their operations.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that these types of regimes tend to preside over a system that's extremely stable, right up to the moment when it really really is not . Batista's Cuba was very stable and friendly to foreign investment too, for instance. Then along came Castro, and suddenly not only was it not particularly stable, but lots of those foreign companies had all their holdings expropriated by the new government for having…

The difference being that China's culture, for the most part, is okay with the surveillance state. There's protests for sure, and places Hong Kong (an ex-British colony) are not okay with it, but most Chinese citizens are aware of the censorship and don't care. I think what's happening more is that westerners are projecting their own culture and philosophies onto the population. Americans are especially passionate ab…

Hmm, how can we really know the population is _okay_ with this? Seems like if things are working this is what the outward appearance would be. But the existence of all this social control means there must be some internal risk China sees.

After all, China is continually upgrading its surveillance and other means of social control. They're also committing cultural genocide in Xinjang despite the international media fallout. They must feel like there's some real threat worth fighting to do all this.

Also unlike the other top 8 or so world economies, China has had an internal revolution/civil war quite recently.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is giving CEO's and corporate boards way, way more credit for long term thinking than they deserve. Corporations base their business out of whatever gives them the best result over the time period when they expect to be involved. If it's a founder, that is a lifetime commitment, probably, unless the founder is intending to sell to a larger business. But in any other case, the CEO and all of the other hig…

I don't think that is true of Apple given the scale of their operations.

What special scale would that be?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I haven't heard, lately, of a million ughyur imprisoned in real concentration camps in the US.

But made to flee their homes as refugees in middle though.

Thanks Hillary for that, and the Honduran coup.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/9/hillary-clinton...

Doesn't change the fact that the US stands several steps above China in any human rights index.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What special scale would that be?

largest-ish company in the world scale?

And how is this related to the argument above now?

Is it some kind of monarchy?

PS. It's not the largest. Neither by market cap nor by employee number.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#248

I am not sure if this is a good move on Apple's part in the long term, both parties, Republicans & Democrats, have shown a lot of ire for China. I don't think this will go unpunished. But perhaps they believe that the Chinese market is vastly more valuable than the US and are willing to eat any cost the US may levy against it in the future. If I were them I'd have just moved it to Vietnam or India.

The main reason to manufacture in China isn't cost. It's far from the cheapest. It's supply chains. There's nowhere else that can compete.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#249
post #167

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

I'm constantly amazed by how Americans think they're so awesome that they think they can criticize China politically.

Please stop using HN for nationalistic battle. It doesn't matter which country you do or don't like—it leads to degenerate discussion and we don't want that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20277723 was especially bad.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#250

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

Although it's at least not an inflammatory swipe, this comment falls on the side of generic political and nationalistic battle. Please don't take HN threads on such tangents. Once internet comments degenerate to arguing the merits and demerits of entire countries, we're certain to have repetitive, predictable, and eventually nasty discussion. On HN we're trying to avoid all that. The subthread below is an example, and such things get worse as they get larger.

Here are two heuristics to keep in mind: if it's generic, it's likely to be predictable; if it's predictable, it's uninteresting.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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